Garmin Astro 220 Problems

[Steve White]

I hear what you are saying. Yet I have not been able to duplicate all these problems people say they are having. The only problem has come from transmitting on the 151 band.

Perhaps myself, and the guys I hunt with have the only really good unit made. Doubt that. Perhaps our radio equipment is so clean to prevent it. Also doubt that. I do know however all are radios/antennas are properly tuned to the channels to prevent loss and damage to the radios.

I would like to put a swr meter on some of these radios that are burning up all the astros. Bet there is a bigger problem in there. Using a cut chart only gets you so close.

[Buddyw]

Steve,
Thanks for the information, I've been watching and listening to some of these as well..

But I'm confused on your last statement?? How would an SWR meter help? Just curious. I thought SWR was measuring the reflection.. A Bad SWR means less Power transmitted and More Power Reflected back to the VHF radio and not going out the antenna (so to speak)??

Buddy

[Steve White]

Buddy, you are mostly correct there. The swr if correct means everything is working right. Not all the power that is reflected goes right back to the radio. Some of that rf that leaks goes elsewhere. You could have rf leaking from a bad connector, broken wire, etc. Rf emissions can cause havoc on lots of things. The same way they do when you have a bad alternator or such. IE, you hear a whining in your radio. Most antennas are designed to operate at least 1.5:1. The lower you can get the better. When someone comes to me with a radio problem the first thing I check is the swr. Amazing how many will peg the meter.

For those that are confuse by this. Think of it this way. Try to watch channel 12 when tuned for 10. Going to be a bit fuzzy isn't it. Or, radio may be a better example. Listen to 94.5 tuned to 94.0. Can't hear much!

[doghunter]

eROKv

Was your recent test with new units or remanufactured units that were supposed to have the new upgraded board. If so we are all screwed mine is due back any day and when I last spoke to Garmin they advised they would only fix the Garmins from now on for this type of problem one time and then the repair will be on our dime.

I hunt in an area where most hunters use the Motorola radios like the peanut farmers we hunt with and around that have a license to use freq. 151.595 the privacy is great and it is real nice not to her all the junk on the regular cb channels, Garmin use the frec’s. 151.82MHz, 151.88MHz, 151.94MHz, 154.57MHz, and 154.60MHz.

I would also like to respond to the Garmin dealer that does not believe we are having trouble with loss of range. Since both the Motorola radio and the astros are licensed and legal if I hunt with them and use a standard 25 watt car mount Motorola like they all have then it should not be my fault for buying a tracking system that received a license to use a already busy frequency and then make a product that would not take normal use within this frequency (fire department, police and many other business owners use the 151 MHz freq. Garmin just started using this frec and if it will not work with all the other legel users already on the 151 freq then that makes them a bully because they were not first just the big boy on the block with all the money).

Also if I pull up window to window to talk to a fellow hunter and he keys his mic then the damage is done and there is nothing I can do but send it back to Garmin and say I lost range again. Here where we hunt we are very often close to another hunting party and if we are catching dogs and someone pulls up or a whole group drives by talking on their radio while I am out of the truck chasing a dog down the unit is fried again.

We are not complaining but just want our units to work as well as yours does. We paid our money and were not notified of any use limitations. Instead of argue since you are a dealer please try to help us solve our problems. The fact is we have problems that none of us created or were warned about.

It is such a great system imagine getting yours and it working great then by the end of the weekend your are down to a tracking range of about 1000 yards then the next weekend you are losing signal on all ten of your collars at between 500 and 700 yards. And it keeps getting worse. Then in the middle of your hunting season you have to mail them back wait on hold ECT.

We don’t want to argue we want to hunt with the device we paid for.

[Steve White]

[doghunter]

Mr. White I appreciate your response and agree we all need to stick together to get anywhere. Us dog hunters are probably the smallest group of all hunters and if we don’t watch fighting among ourselves we probably wont be able to defend our sport against all the groups trying to cut us out.

In replay to your comment using the freq. 151 or there about is a no no. I have 3 220’s 8 dc20 and 10 dc30. I was not warned when I purchased these units and well over a year ago I tried to tell Garmin I thought the problem was exactly what they now admit is causing the problem. I have many letters and E-mails saved on the topic complete with Freq. and model # to he Motorola radio’s. But they advised me that high watt output in close range from the above mentioned freq. would not hurt the unit. They told me this for a total of 7 returned units. I now only send one unit back the other 2 are fried and I have in a cabinet in my garage. I don’t send them back because sooner or later I was afraid they will stop fixing the problem so I tried not to abuse it with the hopes the would figure out the problem and fix it before telling me tough luck.

I love the system when it works and I agree there is people that don’t ever encounter this problem. But those of us that have this problem we need some relief. They can fix it. it is just will they. I know a lot of people use high powered truck radios(all types Marine, Motorola, CB ECT) and have handheld units that are not high powered for getting away from the truck. When you come back sometimes you leave the handheld on and use the truck radio in close range for extended periods. Makes me wonder what keeps the handheld from being damaged. This is what they need to do to the Garmin.

Again I don’t want to point fingers but I bought a system that will not work with another legal device and that should not be my problem. I was not advised of any restrictions or limitations. And I will pay for the fix if it actually fixes the problem permanently. I don’t want to complain I just want it to work in the manner they promised when I purchased it. I held up my end of the bargon by giving the the money they ask for they now need to provide the product they promised.

This is truly the best training tool or tracking device ever invented. And although I know the telemetry collars work further here where I hunt in Florida. I compared the telemetry with Garmin (I own a quick track box and have quicktrac, wildlife and Johnson collars.) and the telemetry collars only worked about mile farther than the gps. Our telemetry units don’t get the range everyone gets in other states. We have swamps and thick woods and some areas we only get around 3-4 miles with telemetry and Garmin when working properly gets around 2 miles. I have had the telemetry get over 5 miles but that is not the normal down here where I hunt. The biggest difference I have found is you can drive around and find your telemetry collars with no loss of range. It has been my experience if your Garmin gets 2 miles of range and you loss signal for some length of time you may have to come into around 1 mile or less to get signal again.

I would like to see some people hang a telemetry collar and a Garmin on the same post and back off and give us the difference. (They need to make sure the distance used is the distance on the Garmin because even if you loose signal it will tell you the exact distance to the spot you lev the collars not the distance to traveled via road.

[Steve White]

DH- As long as you keep using the 151 band you will keep burning them up. I destroyed a tracker maxima by talking on 151. have not had the chance to try it with a quick track, marshall, or wildlife box. Bet it would happen to them as well. So long as they were 151 xes. Could even test that with a 155. Just don't have a radio that could do the 200 channel stuff.

Never seem to have a problem with the handhelds as we get the big warning screech right away! So as a result turn them off. I know back when young and foolish toasted a few cb radios with high power just by pulling up to your car and keying the mic. Even dusted a mc d's intercom once. That cost me a penny.

The thing is we never would have considered trying to talk on the same band as our tracking collars before. Now people think it is alright for some reason rather than adapt and change the channel. I can understand it is harder if using a preprogrammed radio like the motorola. That is why the day I blew up my one unit. I refused to drop a dog. The guys could not change the channel they transmitted on, so I could not track my dogs. I cant track them they dont get out. Ticked those guys off, but nobody wanted to but my junk garmins either!

Now I understand telemetry does work differently in some areas than others. Depends on your terrain and height you are able to get with your box. Pretty flat around here so I would expect it is much the same as Fl. Perhaps just not as thick. I did do several many tests hanging collars, having them driven away by truck and bike. In all my tests the Garmin collars were equal to and just slightly better than the beep beep collars. The only ones I did not test against were marshall. Almost all of my tests were done using 151 collars except for one. That one made me 20 bucks! Had a guy that swore he could track 20 miles with his blue box and johnson collars. So we collared up my truck and sent it down the road. Wth the handheld antenna I lost them at around 1,3 miles if I recall correct. They guy got excited sayiing pay up. I said nope apples to apples. Pulled out the long antenna, and he lost signal on the collars at 2.9 miles. I carried them out to 3.4 miles. When he went to get on top of his truck to track, I said don't bother. Apples to apples says I get to climb up as well. He just handed me the 20 bucks in disgust, and has not said a good word about garmin ever since. Having always used the 151 stuff I knew what my range was where I had problems and so forth. These same problem areas were also the same for any other tracker. So in using the garmin it has been about the same. The only difference is now we know exactly where the dogs are, and what they are doing. Before we would try to track not aget a good signal. Run up the road on way track. Then run up the road more or in another direction. Always turning the unit off then on stopping and tracking. Didn't get a good signal or none at all we moved. We never complained that the stuff was junk for not getting a signal. Blamed it correctly on the terrain. Then moved some more. Always guessing at what the dogs where doing and where they were going. Now we know, and quickly become addicted to watching what they are doing the whole time.

Again I will not defend Garmin as they should have known some issues could come from transmitters. Yet, these were designed for bird hunters. Very few of them need a radio to talk to each other. Now that they are realizing who and where the real market is, I bet they are scrambling to fix things! I don't know a single bird hunter that owns one. My neighbor is a die hard birdhunter. He said what do I need that for. My dogs are always within 50yds.

[bluedogs249]

SW and DH,
I have had the Garmin system since last September and have only burned one unit up using Marine bands.
I have a license from the FCC for my mobile radio and it is in the 159+ range.
I use only 20 watts and my external Garmin antenna is 7 feet away from my VHF antenna.
No problems yet !!
Also anyone the wants heat shrink tubing for their DC-30 collars go to cableorganizers.com and they have all colors.
I use one that is 1.25 " diameter and it shrinks perfectly to fit the collar.
Garmin is aware of this problem and I was told that the new unit I got back from them had new protection up to 50 watts !!!!!!!
Garmin really need to add more channels to the Astro

[doghunter]

I go mine back today and tested it out it worked for 1.6 miles before losing signal. That is all I can get from my house so it has been fixed. The told me to still be careful but I should be protected for watts up to 50 watts but just for good measure keep the watts below 40.

I am scared to use it around the Motorola radios. If I burn another one up I am afraid they won’t fix it again.

Has anyone used one with the upgrade enough to see if the fix works?

Also when I got my unit back it has a different Serial Number then my old unit but it still has some marked locations on it. That tells me they are no longer just sending them to china in bulk to be remanufactured but must have changed the board and gave it a new S/N

I will haul mine to the woods tomorrow and plan to run all weekend. I can get almost 2 miles where I hunt I will update you guys when I get back if if still works as good as when it was new.

[Nolte]

Last summer I went through 3 units that had to be sent back in. One I think was junk from the get go. The antennas were placed about 2 inches apart.

This summer I moved antennas and only transmit on low when the astro is on. It has been working great. So I think there has to be something to not transmitting on high wattage in close proximity. I know it sure can save a guy a few steps and time, or keep up with a hunt in real windy conditions.

[Steve White]

Well guys. I have been doing some talking to a bunch of folks that have burned up their units while using the marine band or above. Which should be safe for the most part. In talking to them, my own tests, and some thoughts as deep as I am capable off. There seems to be one common denominator to all of these problems. Use of a external truck mounted antenna!!!

In my tests I did tape the unit to the radio antenna, but still most likely not enough. From what I can figure. The truck mounted antennas have a higher gain, and larger surface area to absorb the signal from radio. So the Garmin unit is taking a larger amount of juice. The bigger, and better the antenna you have the worse it is. They stock ducky does not have the gain so the damage is less if at all. The portable long range antenna is used outside of the truck mostly while not transmitting on the big radio. So less of a problem.

Funny thing is I have warned all my customers over and over about what not to do. So we have had very few problems with blown units. I have heard of a few that have had some problems. So I tried to contact them. Funny they will not call me back. Either they are mad at me because they blew up, or they know that they should have listened.

Also I always based on the versatility suggest to use and get the portable long range antenna. I never suggest using the Garmin magnet mount. If one wants a truck mounted antenna than I suggest a 2M antenna, but don't believe on is needed much. Other than to keep track of the dogs while trying to get around them, or during bad weather. Only a handful if that of my customers are using a truck mounted antenna if that many.

For my personal use I have only used a truck mounted antenna on a very limited basis. So as a result have not had a problem. I use the mostly a longer rubber ducky by diamond. Model srh77ca. Gives me at least 30% more range on average, sometimes more. When more is needed. I use the portable long range antenna, but slightly modified. Again with a diamond antenna. I use the Diamond RH205 telescopic whip which attaches right to the handle. It has 9db gain, which is higher than anything else you can get in any form of antenna. I have found that even collapsed it performs real well.

So in closing. I have to say that it is not a good idea to be using a truck mounted antenna at all. Really this should not be a problem as we never really had the use of one before. I'm sure there are a few of you that have tried to use a rototrack, or it's magnet moint motorized version, but I bet very few of you have.

Also I talked to Garmin again today. Asked them point blank about a new beefed up board. Once again the rep I talked to new nothing about it. This was one of the reps on the dealer support side. Would think they would know about it. Yet who knows. Maybe next week the answer will change.

Also on the use of 151 yagi's. They will work great, but in a limited way. Only the first 3 channels or 30 id's use 151. So if you use the last 2 in 154. Your range will not be as good. Still will work just not as well.

Hope this helps!

Steve

[Flacko]

I shure hope these problems get fixed soon ore there will be some pissed off houndsmen including me I spent alot of money on that equiptment and i d@mn shure expect it to work without Bull sh!t problems like there having.

[doghunter]

Mr. White I don’t know how you hunt but I hunt mostly from a truck. Our blocks are usually 2 mile by 3 miles with only dead end roads in them. When we jump the dogs can run straight away and you will never hear them to get ahead of them you have to go 6 miles just to go to the other side of the block. We use to have to listen and I am now amazed how far you can hear a dog where we hunt. One block we hunt I watch the dogs at 600 yards and you can not hear them. I run this spot every year. The hunters use to say the dogs broke down. Now I can respond with they are still drawing a straight line and if you move to??? You should be able to hear them. And when they move as the dogs get closer they will respond yep I can hear them coming into hearing now. Sometimes the are only 400 yards from the dogs. (A collar in their truck tells on them.)

My question is what set up would you use from the truck keep in mind we need the most range we can get because the Garmin only gets just under 2 miles at best where I hunt in Florida with the long range antenna. (I do have some good days but for the most part 1.5 miles is the best)

Please include where we can purchase any upgrades/antenna

Thanks