Who has the right to say they have an original strain

[Trueblue]

Hey Bluefloyd,hows it going ? I remember you telling me how good your "ORIGINAL" recipe was and that you were going to give me a sample.You got my mouth watering and then I never got to try it.

[Bluefloyd]

Everything is great here, I just wish i had a little more time to hunt. How are things up your way? what you are hunting these days, black, Blue, or other?.
I have not made the Original cross for a few years but am planning on it on her next cycle. The sire and dam are almost ten now and i had better make this cross one last time. I will be down to two or three dogs this summer and need to restock the kennel. You are still more than welcome to give one a try, hopefully within the next few months it will happen.

[Trueblue]

I'm hunting mostly Cameron or Cameron crosses.Glad to hear you are doing well Matt.

[rooster]

i suppose anyone who has an accidental breeding now has an origional strain.lol. i always like to hear purebred bluetick or plott or walker. i might be wrong but arent they all crossed up way back one way or another??

[cobalt]

Who claims they do have an "original strain"?

[Mike Leonard]

I really don't have an opinion on it I was just asking the question.

I guess say within bluetick breed you might say there were some of the founding father who seperated it from the English Coon hound breed. And they claimed

Grant Strain, Sugarcreek strain. Vaughn strain, Smokey river strain. And each one of these guys had their name on the orginal breed description. Grant, Smith, Elbert Vaughn, Warren Haslour. But now all these have been mixed for so long so are they now a different strain say Cameron. Maybe I don't know.

Same with Walkers, Plotts, and the others so I am not sure

[liontracker]

Are the current hounds produced by Del a strain or a family, what do you guys think?

[cobalt]

My opinion of Del Cameron's dogs is that they are a kennel name. Too few dogs and not enough generations to be called a line or a strain(but certainly close). Not to say they aren't nice dogs with similar traits with each other but they are Vaughn/Sebastian. The Hammer dogs are also Vaughn/Sebastian, but with more than 25 generations. I would say Dave Dean has his own line. The Smokey river dogs of Warren Haslouer are quite diverse in their make-up which doesn't lend itself to a family breeding progam. He bought Sm. Riv. Diamond Jim from Buzz Anderson and the great Sm.Riv. JBS Chief is as much a Hammer dog as a Sm. Riv. dog. I think Haslouer was a great breeder whose methods kept him from having a true "strain". The Uchtman's have what I would call a "strain". A family breeding program based around a dog named "Beans Ranger" with Hammer and Vaughn and Sebastian and Grant dogs intertwined, but far enough back to make it their own. I read somewhere the Vaughn line came from the Jocasse Valley line which came from the Galloway line, which are the foundation of the Walker line. Whose to say what makes a line. Family breeding and lots and lots of time for sure.

[liontracker]

A lot of over lap in this "definition".
Lots and lots of time for sure.

[Mike Leonard]

Cobalt,

Very interesting analogy. I saw a letter from Del Cameron to Bob Mattscheck(the founder of the Silvermist strain) when he was ready to sell out the Sugar Creek Strain and Kennel Name he had purchased from HarryO Smith. This was way back many years ago and i beleive he was asking $1500. or $2500. for the Kennel name. Bob of course did not purchase it because he already had his own line going which he started off the O.O. Grant line and still has that line today after 50 some years.Lyonel Charles of Missouri purchased the last of Del's Sugarcreeks and the Kennel name but never went on with it and it died right there.No more Sugar Creek Kennels and the strain was bred out and that was the end of it in any real fashion.Del then continued to Outfit and hunt using some walkers and some plotts until he landed on the blue dogs that he started breeding and calling Camerons.


Astute observation on the Jocasse Valley dogs going back to Galloway and you are correct these dogs made up some of Elbert Vaughn's earliest blues and also shared blood with the foundation treeing walkers such as Indiana Boone boy tied closely to the original Treeing Walkers and the first ever registered litter raised by Lester Nance.

[cobalt]

I looked up "strain" in the dictionary. Strain- the collective descendants of a common ancestor. In retrospect, I would say any animal with traceable ancestery is by definition considered an original strain, ie, Mike Leonards great grandchildren(if you have any) are of the original Leonard strain. I think it is all about opinion esp. with the word "original". If I were to buy a dog from say, Warren Haslouer's strain of dog, I would be more concerned with which dog in particular as apposed to the kennel name, "Smokey River". Wanting a dog out of S.R. Chiefs Blue Dancer as apposed to Vinning's Running Bullet or Cameron's Blue Savage as apposed to Cameron's Blue Carbide. Liking the Dancer and Savage dogs "strain" and progeny, for my use, being preferential. Of course now I'm just confusing myself.

[Brady Davis]

Good comments. I am curious as to the common consensus as to how many generations or how long it would take to develope a "strain" of dogs and not a well known kennel name (like mentioned above for Camerons)?

Also, how many strains out there do you guys think hit their hayday and the peak of performance awhile back and now seem to rest on their laurels and name? Not a name mentioning, name bashing question, just curious as to how often you think this happens....

[Mike Leonard]

So when if ever do the decendants from that common ancestor thru cross breeding produce young that no longer can be considered part of the original strain?

I know it is confusing and I think many times we use the term strain loosely.

Say you cross a House bred walker that has been bred tight for seven generation around the basic House lines to a Finley River bred walker that has sbeen bred along the FR lines. Then do you have a cross strain pup I don't know just asking...

[Majestic Tree Hound]

[Mr.pacojack]

Well I will pitch Van Johnson in the pile. He may not have registered dogs but his blue dog Wade is about the best I have hunted with. Kim Payne and Wade Lemon have some good blue colored dogs too but they all go back somewhere to Van's stock.
Interesting subject. I always find it funny how guys mix up a stain of dogs that were coon dog bred and then concider them Biggame bred just because they have done well at biggame also.