just a coment on cameron line

[12-GAUGE]

[liontracker]

Yep, 12 guage! And another term breeders use is when "things blew up".
That is what happens after you breed yourself into a corner. Usually there is no going back from that point. By then the bad traits are pretty well set.

[12-GAUGE]

YALL BACK UP MY TURN

[liontracker]

LOL! Very Nice!

[calblu]

[liontracker]

He was refering to tightly bred.

[calblu]

Thank you. I can understand locking in the shyness in that case (I personally prefer the word timid).
I would accept that as an explanation for some of the overly timid pups I've bought from other breeders that were tightly linebred (and which never made it into my breeding program because I *won't* breed to dogs with temperament problems).
With the litter I raised, that was definitely not the case. They had a COI of less that 5%* and that's nothing compared to some of these bluetick litters I'm seeing out there with 25%+ COIs. Many of those litters with high COIs seem fine if I can extrapolate from posts and emails I read that never mention anything about timidity. My tightest-bred litter was my first 2 litters (same cross) over 10 yrs ago at a 12% COI. Every litter since then has been farther and farther from the dogs I like to linebreed on, and I haven't linebred or inbred back on my previous generations (for a specific health reason).

So maybe I can assume that what I'm experiencing is isolated examples. That happens to me a lot --I consider it the living under a black cloud scenario.
I haven't had a pup shipped in in a couple years. Got a new one coming next month with totally different bloodlines in the first 4 gens than we've brought in before. Guess we'll see how that goes!

So liontracker, let me ask you this. Do you think it's possible to actually breed yourself into a corner **you can't get out of** with tight breeding? Wouldn't taking that "corner pup" out to a totally outcrossed dog solve that problem?
In the past I've considered myself "bred into a corner" only because I couldn't find the dog(s) I needed to continue closely linebreeding on those same 2 or 3 dogs I'm always looking for, without inbreeding. But obviously there were unlimited numbers of dogs I could use that didn't go back to those particular dogs, or didn't go back to them any closer than the 4th or 5th generation.

*(I look at 6 generations for my COIs)

[liontracker]

[calblu]

[liontracker]

[calblu]

[liontracker]

No way!

[Brady Davis]

[quote="calbluI wonder if any bluetick breeder has managed to go 7+ generations of tight line or inbreeding with nothing negative coming out......[/quote]

LOL, if you find that breeder, call me....I want a pup!

[calblu]

[liontracker]

Usually at that point a breeder has to either outcross, or bite the bullet and cull ruthlessly... as in keep the whole litter between close friends and really evaluate them.
One or two generations later, things will either blow up or produce near cookie cutter pups.

I think we should start a new post on this very topic and get the Clays' opinion, among others on the subject.