leopard cur/catahoula

[txhoghunter]

The leopard curs Ive been reading about used on lions and bear in the northwest, are they the same as the catahoula or maybe a different strain or bloodline ? From what Ive been reading it doesnt seem like theyre the same to me... Im in north east texas an theres alot of catahoula/leapords used on cows and hogs, but for the most part theyre more of a closer range, hotter nosed dog, and for the most part silent on a track.... Fill me in... THANKS

[waylon]

There is as much confusion about the Leopard hound trying to decide where it really came form ect. ect. I raised some Really good Catahoula's for a while and have been around them since i could walk. I trained a Leopard hound for Verl Keeter a former Oklahoma Game Warden Commisisioner, called him danny. Anyway after being around them and seeing them for years they have very strong ties to Catahoulas and there color is exactly the same as a catahoula, what i mean is every possible color combo on one is exactly like the other, there build is quite close and there nature's remind me of each other, plus they way they hunt excluding the Leopard hound has a better nose.Odis weems from louisiana, J cross catahoula & salty dog Catahoula have catahoulas that hunt good, but most are real hot nosed period.and most catahoulas are being bred now for the bay pen competitions sadly, much like coon hound comps, it's hurting the breed

Verl's brother was one of the 4 men who really discovered the dogs ( leopard cur or hound what ever you want to call them) and He told me some very interesting stories about what his brother and some other men decided to " lets just say remember and or forget " about the origin of the dogs.Now there is so much big money in them there is no turning back and being honest IMO

Just know this in a nut shell they are basicly a catahoula/hound cross in there origin that was 1 fact that will be denied by the " big Leoperd men" but it's true, since then they have develpoed different lines and have added or taken away from the original dogs that came from the carolinas, I know this for fact, the rest is sell's pitch plain and simple . But like so much BS on the net, sadly on here at times, some one who has never owned or bred or hunted either and is a self proclaimed expert will tell you a bunch of bull that some big shot told them and say i dont know what i am talking about, Your from Texas and from there to north east oklahoma you will find hog hunter/ cowboys using catahoula/hound crosses that amazingly look and act just like the leopard hound of the past. My information comes from first hand working with both dogs and hearing stories from people who helped bring the dogs to the public eye.
i know i rambled but thats what I KNOW about the two dog breed's ........or atleast what i think i know

God Bless

[Machias]

Comparing American Leopard Curs to Catahoulas is exactly like comparing Bluetick Coonhounds to a Blue Heeler. One is a cattle dog and one is a track and tree dog. They are not related and do not hunt anywhere near the same. Their personailities are nothing alike. The might "look" similar but that is it, oh and they are both part of the canine family. As a kid I had german shepard cross that could tree a coon, possum etc, didn't make them a good hunting dog in the least.

[waylon]

Machias I noticed you called me a liar more or less to it on both of these post having subject matter concerning the Leopard cur (hound) and the Catahoula, at first it pissed me off and i typed all kinds of mean and nasty stuff before calming down and coming to my scenses. i really could care less about your opnion and information you "think" you know. the fact that you think comparing the 2 breeds in question to the aforementioned breeds in your reply tells me all i need to know about your knowledge of dogs in general.

you think your right, I know i am and we will leave it at that.

God Bless and good luck with what ever you hunt

[Doogie]

Do what Fred said and get ahold of Mr Oller (Gray Fox on here) and get his number, or PM me and Ill give it to you, Randy will talk your ear off all day about this very subject, make sure your phone is charged, you'll need it. He has been hunting Leopard Curs before you and I and possibly Fred even took a breath.
Even now, since the split two years ago in the ALCBA, this thread is talking about 3 totally different types of dogs.

[Clarka57]

Doggie is right, and Randy may talk your ear off but you wont get tired of listening. I own leopard curs, I have been around catahoulas my whole life and since the split from alcba I have seen pictures of leopard hounds. I know they are different but if you want the real answer call Randy.

[Pops]

you all might want to be careful calling anyone out. when i talked to Mr Randy about it he more or less agreed the two are almost certainly related, like the UKC american pit bull terrier & the AKC american staffordshire terrier or the german wirehair pointer & the deutsche drathaar. whether there is hound in the background or not, does it really matter as long as they hunt the way the owners want?

Machias
i'd say it's more like comparing redbones to blackmouth curs but then the heelers are used like curs in OZ. they catch a lot of different game w/ them but especially hogs. and they have the old smithfield cur in the background, just like most of the american cur breeds, so the analogy really ain't so far off the mark.

[waylon]

[Machias]

The personalities and hunting styles of these two dogs could not be further apart. This is from a Catahoula's owner's website:

"The King of the stock dog breeds, most enduring... stamina is their middle name... CATAHOULA LEOPARD DOGS outwork and outfight all other breeds of stock dogs when protecting their master, livestock, and property. They are the largest and most aggressive of the cattle dogs, bred to handle wild cattle and hogs in the roughest, most remote country. Catahoulas will also hunt coon, bear, or whatever else they are introduced to. These dogs are not good city dwellers... they need several acres to roam to be happy. A farm or ranch is really their element.

Catahoulas are bred to go and find livestock in swamps, hilly canyons, thickets or forests, or mountains. They will trail, nose to ground, but prefer to throw their heads up and "wind" their prey, taking the shortest route to find, gather up or bunch, and circle and bay the quarry until their master
can reach them to take control.

Preferred size from 20-26", weight 50-90 lbs, with a few individuals larger although most males average 60-70 lbs in lean working condition, & about 24" tall. Short haired, long tail, natural flop ear (like a Dalmatian ear), they come in every color of the rainbow, but are best known for a blue/grey base with black/liver spots ("blue Leopard"), tan legs and face, white toes and chest. Many variations on this general pattern. Spots occur in all colors. Blue/glass or parti-colored "marbled" or "cracked"eyes are common in every litter. Often a dog will have eyes of two different colors.

Catahoula Leopards are extremely agile and athletic, territorial, protective of "their property". They are more primitive psychologically than most breeds and need consistent obedience reinforcement. The owner must understand the Alpha concept and stay in control at all times, but still be loving to the dog. Very loyal, loving, intelligent and independent... they really think for themselves."

These dogs are NOTHING like an American Leopard Cur, in personality or hunting ability and style. Apples to oranges, yes they are both fruit, but that is as close as they get.

[waylon]

[Doogie]

you sure claim to "know" waylon, oh thats right you've raised 100 catahoulas and 15 leopards I see you edited that part out of your other post

[waylon]

Doogie I am sure you know more about these dog, hell you have probably forgot more than i'll ever know. What I do know is that there history is awful close in detail to the catahoula, there coloring is exactly the same. I know first hand accounts from one the brothers of the origanal folks who brought them out to the general public and what he told me in person at his house in muskogee oklahoma. I have raised over 100 catahoulas and near 15 leopards, i owned 2 leopards and kept all the pups from the 2 crosses we made 12 pups total. i own one right now thats in my pen( so now it's 16 ). His name is LAWSONS OKLA WRANGLER UKC # P588-066 got him from clyde lawson here in Oklahoma, he goes back to bluffpoint dogs, wicks camo jug ect ect. I dont like him so far, i didnt like any of the other leopards except the one i was paid to train for Verl Keeter former oklahoma wild life comm.I gave them as far a chance as i could before they went home to see Jesus I have owned and culled more dogs than any one man my age should have.

i am not an expert at any thing but i dont bull shit people or buy into myths made up to sell dogs. The leopard hound (cur) history can not be proven and there are many missing links and holes in the story. i have exhusted myself in the History of the Catahoula leopard dog and hell yes i have raised over 100 thats pretty easy to do when you hog hunt them 5 to 6 days a week,. I own one at this time he is located in terleton Oklahoma i stand him at stud ( his name isStokes Oklahoma Cowboy he is a patchwork red leopard ) i have traveled to louisiana and mississippi and spoke with people who were the foundation of the catahoula breed. i have spoken with stronghills animal registry in Texas the ORIGINAL cATAHOULA REGISTRY and can prove any and every thing i have said or typed. I am done fussing with folks over these cur dogs. If you think i am full of shit, guess what your not the first one to go down that road and you wont be the last.

My full name is Waylon L. Stokes ( allchevy78@gmail.com)
Hominy,Oklahoma
p.o. box 495
74035
If you want my phone # pm me and i'll give it to you, i will back up any statement i make on here today or 5 years from now. If i edited any thing out it's because i am tired of the kiddy bull shit and fighting about it

unless you were there when desota brought the first leopard colored dogs to the americas and know first hand what they were back in the beginning you dont know for sure any more than i do so you keep your opnions about them and i'll keep mine. I am sure your a fine guy and my comments just rubbed you the wrong way. Not my intenion and i am tired of about it. if you feel the need to discuss it further pm me, call me,e-mail me or write me but on here i am done with it.
God Bless

[Machias]

This will be my last comment as well.

Mr. Stokes I never thought of you as lying, I only thought of you as a person who has a set belief in something and your set belief is completely different than mine. Both of our beliefs based on personal experiences. I'm not trying to sell any pups sir. I do find it curious that most of the guys from your neck of the woods, OK, LA, TX all have the same view that the Catahoula Leopard Cur and the American Leopard Cur are pretty much one in the same. I'm sure you've heard the stories of the tree frogs that lived on an island in the Pacific. Earthquake comes along and splits the island and over time the tree frog species changes so much so the species which used to be the same are so different they cannot even mate now. If we are talking about following the dogs ansestry all the way back to when Desota stepped off the boat, then I stand corrected, you are 100% right, most dogs can be traced back and have the same ancestry. I was talking modern era, sorry. You mentioned Jug, I guess that is probably a discussion for another thread but in my humble opinion that dog and his ansetry should not be in the ALCBA registry, because of the likely hood of hound blood. I can only talk about a couple of strains of American Leopard Curs, McDuffie, Dutchman Creek's line and Mr. Oller's dogs. They are NOTHING what so ever like the Catahoulas of the south, in hunting ability, nose, style and personalities. I'm not saying the Catahoulas are bad, but as a locate, track and tree dog they cannot hold a candle to Mr. Oller's or Mr. McDuffie's line of dogs. Even though the look is similar you can see photos of catahoulas and McDuffie dogs and you can pret near pick each one out, lots of subtle differences. But for me the biggest difference is the personalities, how they hunt and how they handle, night and day sir.

[waylon]

Fred men who follow dogs are different from the average man, it takes grit to stick with it and we form ideas and plans and set out to finish them come hell or high water. It comes as no suprise that when you get enough of these hard headed men penned up in one place there will be some face barking between a few. I am done with this subject and only want to say to you or any one else that didn't like what i had to say, is what i believe 100% to be the truth based on first hand trial and error with both breeds and accounts told to me face to face either way it really does not matter much what either of us think, you believe your information is correct 100% for your own reasons. So lets just leave it at that. If you ever venture into Oklahoma and want to hunt you will be welcome

I hope you enjoy what you hunt and they work for you. I will do the same, God Bless and good hunting

[Machias]

I would enjoy that Mr. Stokes, take care and God Bless.