Initiative Number 19

[mike martell]

http://egov.sos.state.or.us/elec/web_ir ... 19..LSCYYY.

please click on to the highlighted link that reads complete text. this will inform you as to what is going on, we need to submit comments to Kate Brown. secretary of state in support of this initiative by this Friday July the 15Th. short notice! this is as good as it gets! we don't comment then this will just die and go away. your comments are needed for this to be considered for review.

thanks.....mike

[Libby]

The title absolutely sucks.

If one doesn't know, or particularly care, about the topic, they'll immediately write it off as 'if it was good enough to be voted on before, why buck the voters?' Heck, anti's will get their panties in a knot about the 'sport' aspect. Who wouldn't be in favor of 'harassing' wild animals. Wretchedly written.

I can't get passed what a horrid title it is, Mike, and how a vote yes is a vote for harassing cougars.

Did Kate Brown write this herself? She's evil you know.

I wouldn't waste money trying to get this petition signatures let alone a pass in November 2012.

[mark]

Well then LIBBY lets see what you are doing to make changes!

[mike martell]

most have no clue in to what is going on in Salem. plans are in place to do the best we can without notifying outsiders as to what our plans are. this site is monitored by more than just hunting enthusiast. any further discussion can be concluded by calling 541-367-1009 within reasonable hours.....thanks

mike

[jessmessner]

Yes, the Secretary of State did write this title. That is why we are arguing the wording.
Libby, do you want to see this law changed? I for one am working very hard to make this happen and have run into many people that scream real loud but when it comes down to it they are not willing to be constructive.
This summary is close to being good. If we send in solid arguments to Kate Brown we can make this happen.
It is a shame that there are a few guys out there that are working against our efforts. It is more of a shame that the people who are speaking out against us the loudest are the houndsman and hunters themselves.
I guess I fail to understand why there isn't great support for the folks working to restore hounds for cougars and bears?

[mark]

If you,re not part of the sollution . . . you,re part of the problem

[Libby]

Good luck with it Jess. Just because I am not with you on working on this doesn't mean I am against you.

I don't know who is working for whom in which camp, nor do I really care.

It really looks like something that blue devil would write. I'd have ignored this entire thread but for the fact it is so, so bad.

I'll now exit stage right, having said all a wanted to the first post

So long, and thanks for all the fish.

[Geno]

Sure is nice to see you put all this work and time into this Mike for u and everyone else. Hope all is going well hope the best for all this!!

[mike martell]

geno, good hearing from you....all is going well here. hope you are doing well with the hounds. your feet ever hit the ground, give me a ring.

take care.....mike

[bluedogs]

i tryed to comment on it but it wouldnt come up for me not sure why but i tryed a couple diffrent times had to download a thing to bring up what the initative is all about but still couldnt comment hope we get enough comments to get this going

[bluesman]

What is with the whole "harass" part?

[livetohunt]

I sure hope things work out for you guys up there Mike. Its a shame when we spend more time fighting eachother and other sportsmen then the real enemy in this WAR. We have the same troubles down here in California and the anits are loving it to, we are so wrapped up fighting eachother over BS all over this country they can just walk in and take our rights. Keep up the fight and best of luck to you, Chris

[jessmessner]

The Secretary of State included the word Harass in her summary of the initiative. It is one of the topics we are debating with her about. We will have a final initiative wording in a month or so.
We need to be supporting this effort and the other people who are fighting to regain our hunting rights.

[mike martell]

how many people are up to speed with the truth about your hunting here in oregon? hound hunters will never agree on much....this is fine with me. I'm sure since there is little comments over our rights most agree with how things currently stand.

my position has been consistent from the start. i read "WRETCHEDLY WRITTEN", yes it was....what did you state in your letter to secretary of state Brown to correct her? mine went as follows. the results of a "no" vote retains current law which only allows taxpayer and license and tag fee funded professional hunters to pursue/ take cougars with dogs.

we are not doing a good job of exposing who is doing our hunting here in oregon. back in 2006-2007 with the cougar management plan and house bill 2971, supported and pushed by oha. the context of this change was for odfw to deputize sport hunters to assist in cougar removals.

what happened after? odfw chose to hire USDA aphis wildlife services to do your hunting and mine. they also decided in 2009 to ask for more money in license and tag increases to fund the short fall from sport hunters who were disgusted and quit and TO FUND THE SERVICES RENDERED BY USDA.

odfw has used volunteers but does not support there use. usda is the federal government and therefor good luck filing a law suit. who attended the introduction of the three house bills in Salem earlier this year? hsus made a strong argument, why does odfw need a pilot program for cougar since it has been using volunteers since 2007? why does it need any more cougar legislation? good question. this is the question of those state senators.

until we set the record straight, i suspect nothing much will ever change. odfw is not in a position to discuss politics and side with or against sport hunters. IT IS UP TO ME AND YOU TO CHANGE THIS!!! does odfw agree they have a problem with declining deer or elk? NO!....why would they. would a used car salesman tell you a car is a piece of junk? no....bottom line, it is about tag sales and the economic impact this plays to the state.

this has been proven recently and I'm sure there are those who think otherwise.....this is fine. now lets examine the black bear situation as it currently stands. does odfw support a management plan? you tell me....in early 2000 the commission was mandated to implement a management strategy. why did this sit on the back burner for almost a decade? you tell me? my guess is why would they. what did odfw do as a result of threats of a law suit from big wildlife?

they simply amended it, or as i put it....watch the pros flush it down the toilet.....
do we agree odfw is concerned about harvest objectives and numbers? usda and contractors snared 744 black bears in my district and surrounding area. females consisted of 172. there were 226 cubs, subs and of the 226, 42 of those were labeled unknowns.346 were boars. what would happen to you the sport hunter for disguising the sex of your deer and referencing the sex as "UNKNOWN"? ticket maybe? jail maybe? probably both.

i need someone to explain how this qualifies as "MANAGEMENT".....what i hear in my home town is what is referenced as "PREVENATIVE MAINTENANCE" or complete eradication is the management objective of all foresters in oregon. looking at these numbers we can conclude odfw concurs with the foresters.

overview....do we just sit back and allow our hunting to be farmed out to usda or do we fight? educating EVERY SINGLE PERSON IN OREGON ABOUT THE TRUTH is not a bad idea. when you have nothing....you have nothing to lose and everything to gain. i spoke to usda's head david williams. i simply explained this to the man....i agree we need usda. here is the break down on my end...

i recently attended a meeting of our county commissioners. i was asked if i was contacted to assist in hunting as agreed by odfw and usda. i explained to mr nyquist of linn county that i was not as agreed by odfw's ron anglin, david williams, mr. nyquist stated he appropriated $50,000 to usda from a budget he was robbing from in the first place to hire usda to do a job sport hunters are willing to do for free.

my meeting with mr. williams from usda went as follows. i'm a supporter of usda. however, i do not support usda taking over private sector hunting and when usda gets out of hunting hounds for profit, i personally will stand on a street corner and sell cookies and donate the proceeds to usda to fund trapping and related issues.

David Williams responded to me by saying.....don't blame usda, blame odfw. it was there decision to hire us, not ours. we are a service related business looking for work. they call we staff up and go to work.

the time has come for hound hunters in oregon to level the playing field. I'm sick and tired of being banned since 1994 and now the state uses the federal government to do both bear and cougar harvest. i agree more with the stand of hsus....was the intent of the voter to transfer the hunting from the private sector over to the state to hire the federal government? you tell me....