montana bear hunting with hounds

[catdogs]

I agree, its not really fair, but it has been legal in your state for years and illegal in ours for years, and I don't think either state will change any time soon. Heaven for bid one of our prized Grizzly Bears gets a little excercise... I'm not much of a bear hunter, so you don't have to worry about me... My point really was that I'm opposed to it here in MT.

[Trueblue]

I understand your logic.Dealing with crowds can get old pretty fast.

[jbc67]

[Ringo]

Ya its set up pretty nice right now the way its set up for lions. The hunting pressure might increase but it would be really nice to get some more seasons opened for running hounds. Its seams like the state could keep the bear population in alittle better check and you would probably be seeing alot bigger bears being killed.

[Ringo]

Has anyone ever talked to a game warden that is for running bears with hounds. What are the pros and cons of bear hunting with hounds cause I dont see much negative coming from it besides hunting pressure.

[Liz ODell]

It doesn't matter how many hunters in state or out of state you have that hunt your area if they are not proactive...truthfully how many of them contribute in any way to any of the clubs in the states they hunt or for that matter even bother to vote?

[bearcat]

Jealous houndsmen who don't want anybody from out of the area coming in to hunt are likely to cut their own throats. I grew up in Washington and the Washington houndsmen dumped a lot of money into to Idaho to defeat their iniative. And then Idaho turned around and changed the law so Washington hunters can't come here and hunt. Me and a lot of other houndmen moved here, but if we have another iniative we'll never get the money from out of staters to defeat it, and it will be a much tougher fight next time. Montana won't let me hunt bobcats their as a nonresident and so there's no incentive for me to help Montana defend their hunting rights. On the other hand I travel to both Oregon and Wyoming to cat hunt, and I donated money to defend Oregon's hunting and would be willing to do the same for Wyoming. If I thought I might be able to bear hunt in montana I might be willing to support the effort to legalize it, but since nobody seems willing to let nonresidents in don't expect to much support.
I don't believe Montana has ever been able to run bears with dogs, I think that was a law on the books long before the grizzly became an issue. They are just a justification for keeping it illegal.

[shoot4fur]

I doubt you ever will get to come hunt bobs in montana because the seasons dont even stay open that long for the people that live here. There is no problem filling the quotas. And I am not sure we would see bigger bears if we had a hound season. I look at a lot of bears each year, and only see a couple nice bears. If people hear will shoot small cats then what makes you think they wont shoot young bears and shut the quota down, because that is how they would do it. I like running cats with dogs, but I am a spot and stalk bear hunter. Yah it could be fun, but not sure its the best thing to do. I agree we would have a lot more guys out in the woods with hounds.

[dhostetler]

I am all for getting montana bear hunting with hounds legal. In January I made an effort to contact several legislaters about introducing a bill but I should've started the effort last fall. Below is correspondence that I cut and pasted out of a post in the lion forum that turned to bear hunting. My comments are highlighted.



I question how much those legislators listen anyway as in January I e-mailed several of them to try to get a bill introduced to legalize the use of hounds for bear hunting and none of them ever replied to my e-mail. They could have at least replied and given me some kind of excuse rather than just ignore me.


Was this something a group of houndsmen were attempting to accomplish or was just you own effort. I wish I would have known, I would have been up for supporting a new law like that for sure. I do think that getting that accomplished, (allowing black bears to be hunted by use of hounds in Montana) is going to take a massive push from all groups of sportsman. Would definatly be a huge win for our hunting rights in Montana.[/quote]

I don't really think this would need such a massive push. We need to find someone with influence on the FWP commission or else have a legislator introduce a bill.

Below is what I sent to several legislators in January that I never got a response from.

Chas Vincent

I hope the current legislature has started on a good note.

I was wondering if you would consider submitting a bill to allow the use of
hounds to pursue black bears. Many western states that allow the use of hounds
for mountain lion hunting also allow the use of hounds to pursue black bears.
This would create more hunting opportunties and allow fish and game to issue
tags that we would have to buy to pursue bears thereby increasing revenue for
the fish and game.

Most states that allow hounds for bear hunting also generally throughout the
summer have a pursuit only season. Areas where bears are regullarly pursued by
hounds have a lower rate of problem bears due to more interactions between
humans/hounds and bears.

I hope to hear from you soon.

Duane Hostetler Rexford, MT

[dhostetler]

I spend hundreds of dollars a year to go to Idaho to hunt bears and I wouldn't break a sweat to plunk down a $1,000.00 for a Montana Bear Pursuit tag. My house borders Forest Service 70 miles of unbroken forest south and 40 miles of unbroken forest west. I have the type of bear habitat right behind my house that most people only can dream about but I have to drive 4 hours minimum to get to the Idaho bear grounds.

We also have a very high bear population in NW Montana which I estimate to be at least double than the best places I've hunted in ID. I believe bears are the main reason that we never had as many elk as Idaho does.

[jgagne57]

I can't believe what I'm reading. Some say they don't want "out-of -state" hunters but yet they say they bear hunt in UT and ID (out-of-state)
DIVIDE and CONQUER
You are doing a good job of dividing yourselves so now the ANTIS can come in and CONQUER

[huntfish8]

[jbc67]

What if we turn this thread into a positive one instead of divisive? I am good friends with a state legislator who might be willing to back a bill for us--but since the current session is ending in a few days, the bill wouldn't be introduced until 2013 (they only meet every odd numbered year).
I am not completely positive what he will say, but I feel pretty confident that he would be willing to back a bill that allowed the pursuit of black bears, if it were written for him and it pulled ranchers and hunters together. I'm not even going to approach him, though, unless most houndsmen can come to some sort of agreement or consensus (I think most of the differences expressed on this board can be solved by simply changing the wording in the bill). What rules does everyone think should be included in such a bill? If you give me your thoughts and an idea of how much support we could muster then I could give him a better idea of how he would benefit politically. By the way, he is a hunter who likes going hunting with me and my hounds, so I don't think a lot of convincing will be needed.
Based on everyone's comments, I envision a bill that would provide for the pursuit (not taking) of black bears with hounds during specific months of the year (I am thinking that summer might be the best time for a pursuit season to avoid drawing opposition from spring spot-and-stalk bear hunters and fall big-game hunters) (probably more appropriate to start with merely pursuit, instead of allowing bears to be shot over hounds, to assure people that bear numbers won't fall, so that the resistance isn't so big and so that voters don't view this as a "pro-outfitter" or "anti-local hunter" bill). What do you think?
There are a lot of bear problems throughout the western part of the state which could be at least partially solved by bears being run by dogs (and fear of dogs and people being instilled in the bears). I would bet that local stockman's associations would back the bill if the right preparations are made ahead of time. In my opinion the bill should allow pursuit by both residents and non-residents, but non-residents would traditionally pay higher prices, just like they pay for other hunting licenses, (if you flatly exclude non-residents completely then many will just end up moving in-state anyway--which would cause the big increase in houndsmen numbers and competition for tracks that all the cat hunters are afraid of. Besides, it is apparent from these discussions that non-residents can probably add a lot of $$ to the fight. This is my opinion thus far, but I want to know what everyone thinks). To assure government officials and bunny-huggers that allowing the legal pursuit of bears won't lead to illegal harvesting, the bill might also impose some sort of additional high penalty upon any hunter that shoots a black bear that's treed or bayed by hounds or maybe it should be imposed upon any hunter that is found with a dead bear and hounds.
The introduction of a bill like this would break with FWP tradition, and would probably be resisted by the FWP. I think it would have a good chance, though, if the stockman's associations (ie: stockgrowers) were to back it. I don't think the grizzly lovers would have a scientific argument against black bear hunting because Idaho hunters have successfully distinguished between the two species for decades. Well, I've blown enough wind . . . What does everyone think? Could these differences be worked out some way? I'm looking more for solutions and suggestions, not who can lose their temper the fastest. Myself, I don't want to be reading similar threads after 2013, wishing that we'd at least tried something.

[Ringo]

Iam in I just want to run my dogs all summer long and not have to worry about anything. I think it would be great to have a chase season and a kill season, but im up for anything.

[kehrer10]

Josh,
I'm in, non-residents should not be excluded from hunting, they are a huge push for any small town and every dollar helps those communities. I think a harvest season would be great, maybe have a system like either spot and stalk or hound license so you have to choose one or the other. Anything I can do to help let me know, I'm not too smart when it comes to all this political book learnin stuff so just let me know what to do.