montana bear hunting with hounds

[jason]

I agree with the other 2, pursue and kill, they can always amend the bill during the legislative session if they want to take out the kill portion.

[dhostetler]

Count me in. There are several hound guys in our area that would be willing to travel to Helena to meet or testify before a committee. I am also for going for everything kill and pursuit however I would be more than happy with just a pursuit. One problem I could forsee is hound guys and archery hunters running into conflicts in the fall however we could have a hound kill season on the week between rifle and archery season. I have hunted a lot in Idaho and have never had problems with anybody residents or archery hunters so I figure the issue would be minor. Making a big deal about putting big fines on poachers I think isn't neccessary, most of Montana is so low populated that most poachers don't get caught. People will always poach and most of the time get away with it. If that gets put in the bill it might insinuate that hound guys will be tempted to poach and could ultimately kill the bill. If the temptation to poach issue comes up during committee discussions it should be pointed out that we have a long lion pursuit season with no poaching problems.

According to figures I got off of Idaho Fish & Game site an average of 15% of the bears killed in Idaho were with hounds from 96 to 08.

I don't believe we guys would be any competion with spot & stalk hunters as MT would probably have a lesser % because of a lot more closed gate restrictions then ID does.

I will also repost on a previous thread about bear hunting in Montana to bring it up to the top so anybody that hasn't seen that post can read it.

[jbc67]

Great comments guys. Keep 'em coming. Are there any other provisions that you think should go in that haven't been talked about? It sounds like many are in support of a kill season. I am also starting to think that it would be best to avoid discussing poaching penalties in the same bill to avoid confusion. What are some strategies for linking the stockgrowers associations to this? Should we have something in the bill for them? If so, what is something they need which is somewhat linked to hound hunting? Or should we just hope that they understand that lower bear numbers will result in lower calf depredation? I think that allies will make a big difference--especially if our allies are ranchers.

[huntfish8]

ALLIES ARE KEY!!! More people on your side the easier it will be. And I don't know if I would state that more bears would be killed. You might want to say that something like this...if we could run bears you could have a better chance of bears not being a nucance. They would be more unlikely to come around farms and kill peoples calves, sheep, break into peoples home/cabins ext... So the bears would learn not to be around were people are. Also we can take mature bears. look and study them make sure that it isn't a sow that is lacktating so we don't take her and leave the cub an orfin so that cub doesn't have to break into homes/cabins,take farmers sheep ext.. that's my opinion.

[dhostetler]

I would suggest to impress in the bill that bears that are chased by hounds will have a greater respect and fear of humans and are far less likely to come close to houses or ranch buildings. Also if there are hounds in the area that regularly run bears and there is a problem bear the FWP would have the option of asking a houndman to assist them in disposing of the bear versus using there stupid live traps.

I believe now (or the 2013 session) is the time to get it done due to the current anti - predator polotical climate in Montana. I also believe its crucial to get the support of the ranchers, isn't there a Livestock Association that somebody could call or e-mail to see if they would support this? I also believe the FWP Commission has to have at least one rancher, maybe we could get him to support us and bring it up at a Commission meeting so we wouldn't have to wait till the next legislative session.

This year most hunting bills expanding hunting oppurtunties passed overwhelmingly except the spear hunting bill. So I believe a bill legalizing hounds would be no problem to get passed if introduced though our biggest enemies will probably be fellow houndmen.

I believe some of the worse opposers are guys that are currently running bears illegally and don't want more competition.

[jbc67]

I imagine that the support of the Montana Stockgrowers Association and/or the Montana Cattlemen's Association would help a lot. I spoke with the Stockgrowers Association last year when we were thinking about doing something like this, and they returned my call to discuss the issue, but when I told them that we were just a couple guys on the internet, without much support, and admitted that we hadn't lined up any politicians or ranchers to support us yet, they kind of lost motivation. Aren't there any ranchers on this website or houndsmen with relatives that are ranchers, who are members of one of these associations? It would also be good if we could get the support of politicians like Bill Harris (the anti-predator rep that was defeated when he tried to make the mountain lion a predator) and some of the other representatives that make up the Fish, Wildlife and Parks committee. We could use the Rocky Mountain Elk and Mule Deer Foundations. Also, we need to look at what organizations resisted the voter initiative to eliminate trapping on public lands in Montana last year (see http://www.noon160.com/our-supporters/). If people are serious about this, there are plently of pieces to line up before 2013.

[pistol]

Well it sounds like we all are wanting to try and pursue this so why dont we come up with a plan and do it! It would be be amazing to get the opportunity to chase bears even if its just a training season. I dont know if this is something are clubs could do or if it would be better off just attacking this individually with alot of emails and phone calls. I think if we talk about it at club meetings its just going to cause a fight for we cant even agree on lion hunting without ego's and soap operas happening! So maybe some of u other guys who know people in congress could share some email addresses or phone numbers we could call and voice are opinion? And if we all need to be present at a legislative meeting to get this done we need to attend. Taking a day out of are not so busy work schedules to further better the future of hound hunting is all worth it to me. There is no reason why we cant have a chase season allowed in are state! there are days i can go out shooting gophers and see 3 bears. And fwp cant say its cause the grizzly bear cause they claim the population is low and theres only grizzlies in the parks and wilderness right..so that means the rest of the state should be good to go! I know im getting sick of them taking away hunting and coming up with stupid studies that cost MILLIONS when they could give a couple hounds men a tank of fuel and he would be happy as hell to go catch a few bears. LETS DO IT!!!!!!!!!

[jarlinh]

here is a link for the mt legislature to look up your local rep. there is also a zip code lookup. I have a fwp warden friend to call, and an aunt who is in the stockgrowers assoc. I used to be on the Ravalli Co Republican Central Committee, and know our local players pretty well. I will look at getting back on the com. and suggest to all here to look into their individual co's to see if there is a com. to get involved with.

as stated earlier, fellow houndsmen will be our greatest resistance, some uneducated deer n elk hunters too. I think education is going to win the day for the non-hondsmen resistors, taking of mature bears and instilling a proper respect for humans/dogs.

[jarlinh]

could this be 'sticky'd'? i think a lot more people would be reached if it were. most MT hounddoggers arent prowling around the bear hunting forum I'm guessing.

Josh

[Ringo]

Not sure who or what sticky d is

[Gary Gentry]

I AM NOT SURE WHERE I SIT ON THIS I LOVE HUNTING WITH HOUNDS AND WOULD LIKE TO RUN SOME BEARS SOME TIME WITH THEM. BUT I ALSO AM A BOW HUNTER AND LOVE SPOT AND STALK BEAR HUNTING. I THINK THAT IT IS MORE ABOUT FAIR CHASE THE SAME WAY WE CAN NOT BAIT BEARS. WHAT WOULD HAPPEN IF WE HAD A CHASE AND KILL SEASON? WHAT KIND OF INPACK WOULD IT HAVE ON THE BEARS? NOT JUST IN NUMBERS AND SIZE BUT IN THE FULL CRICLE. SHOULD THEY BE RAN IN THE SPRING WHEN THEY ARE TRYING TO RECOVER FROM THE WINTER OR IN THE FALL WHEN THEY ARE TRYING TO GET READY FOR WINTER? HOW DOSE RUNNING BEARS EFFECT CUBS AND SOWS? AND WHAT ABOUT ALL OF OUR DAM WOLVES!? IS HAVING MORE HOUNDSMEN AND HOUNDS IN THE WOODS GOING TO LEAD TO MORE WOLF ATTACKES? AND KILLINGS? SAME THING FOR THE GRIZZLY'S HOW MANY DOGS WILL DIE FROM THEM AND HOW MANY GRIZZLY'S WILL DIE FROM HUNTERS TRYING TO SAVE THERE DOGS? COULD TRYING TO OPEN UP MORE HUNTING WITH HOUNDS HURT US IN THE FUTURE?

[Bearkiller]

LOL. I love you "fair chase" guys. Somehow chasing lions is ok but bears isn't? Coons are ok also but it's inhumane to chase bears. I wonder what the individual animals are thinking. I doubt many of them are running from a pack of hounds thinking "this isn't fair"! Gary your comments are selfish and hypocrital. I don't know you from Adam but what gives a bow hunter( I am a bow hunter) the right to the game any more or less than a houndsman or baiter? Fish and game shouldn't be playing favorites, as they already do, between the sportsmen. By the way, what's worse, some "spot and stock" hunter whacking some sow eating grass on a hillside while she has cubs nearby but not visible? Or a hound hunter treeing a sow recognizing it as a sow and letting her go? I've seen WAY more small bears/females killed by boot hunters than houndsmen. It's not even close. Most bears look alot smaller once they are dead.

[Gary Gentry]

bearkiller I am not selfish or hipocritcal I said I would like to run bears with hounds not that it was wronge! it is the state that looks at it as far chase thats the law here! and i am just not sure that it is in our best interest or our bears to let just any body run them!

[Buckles]

I agree with Bearkiller; What gives the other hunters more rights than a houndsmen? We pay the same taxes to support our government. We shed our blood the same as the other hunters and fishermen to defend our country, and we pay for the right to hunt by paying for our tags. Killing an animal, no matter how it is done, kills and take one more animal from the forest. A kill is a kill no matter how it is accomplished. We have lead ourselves to beleive that the envirenmentalist are right, the game wardens are right and we are wrong. How can there be any difference in how we kill game? The environmentallist have argued for years that it is inhumane to chase down an animal and shoot it defenslesly in a tree. Actually hunting and killing game with hounds has to be more humane than hunting with a rifle or a bow and arrow. At least if a houndman wounds an animal he can turn the dogs loose to find it and kill it, but with the bow or rifle hunter, that animal, if wounded, will roam the forest and suffer a terrible death. Secondly, what is so humane about an arrow stuck in an animal and tearing its insides apart until it dies? At least a bullet's energy will kill the animal instantly if it isn't wounded.

I hate to say it, but we have all alowed the envirenmentallist to convince everyone that what we are doing is inhumane and wrong. We need to organize as one group, and not defend hunting with hounds, YES I SAID NOT DEFEND, but do as they do and use a hidden agenda. We should be fighting for the preservation of game; then and only then will they listen to us. Think about it, we really go all out to preserve game. Who lets the game stay in the tree and walk away to tree it another day? We do. Does the bow or rifle hunter do this? Hell no; they kill everything they see. We can only get back our right to hunt with hounds if we fight for one right at a time, and to say we stand for the preservaton of animals instead of fighting for our right to hunt with hounds. In addition, every state should be open to hunting with hounds. WE HAVE EQUAL RIGHTS TOO.

[Gary Gentry]

I see what you guys are saying but I dont think that this has to do with envirenmentallist but more of conservation. same as bow hunting only areas and like the 4 point on one side rule or branch antler bulls only. when it comes to fishing you have no live bait laws and so on. I know that there are people out there that would tree a bear and let it live to tree anther day and there are the ones that are going to kill also. Now that being said I know that montana is not perfect when it comes to conservation there are things I would like to see changed the wolves have hurt our deer and elk heards and it is going to take some time to fix this. I would hate to see some thing happen to our bears! this is the state I grew up in and I remember how it was when I was a kid the fishing and the hunting and it is nothing like it use to be! and I will do my part in conservation to try to perserve and fix what we have. What I dont understand is why so many people that dont live here think that this is so unfair? we as sportsmen ( houndsmen bowhunters rifle hunters fly fishermen) all of us need to respect one another and conservation.