Bear in Montana with hounds????

[Borderpond]

Rem700 , I am 100% positive that Gov Pataki had a great deal to do with it. I was running dogs with several different guys in upstate NY right after the training season opened.We talked about it alot back then.

[sheimer]

This is the letter that I sent to my congressman to start with:

I am an avid outdoors-man and hunter. I really enjoy hunting with my hounds. I am seeking to expand the hound hunting a little.

It is my opinion, as well as many others, that legalizing hunting bears with hounds would provide several advances in bear management as well as extending the usefulness of hounds. By utilizing hounds, an opportunity to observe the bear before the harvest at close distances would decrease the chance of shooting a female(especially with cubs) and allow the hunter to better judge the age and maturity of a boar. This would provide the Dept. of Fish and Game an opportunity to better manage the bear population by requesting that hunters report the size and sex of all animals treed.

In addition to a better controlled harvest, an element of fear would be instilled in the bears in relation to humans. I know at my home we have had several encounters with bears in close proximity to our house. I'm sure there are several others in our area that could attest to the same experiences. I feel that a respect for human scent would decrease the amount of bears destroyed because of their being habituated to humans. This would also provide for a better management of bears.

A financial boost to the FWP from the sale of licenses and permits would also assist in the better management of bears.

As you can tell, this is about not only me enjoying the hunt, but for the better management or our game animals.

I have sent several e-mails to the directors of the FWP without a response from any of them. Please forward this correspondence to anyone that you feel could assist with making hound hunting a reality. I really appreciate your assistance.

Please let me know what else I could do to help.
Scott Heimer


This is the response I wrote to his response:

Thanks for the response, it's the first one that I've gotten. I understand not being able to get back right away.

I wish I could tell you that no one would bend or break any rules, but I'd be lying. I don't know what you exactly mean by "abused". I feel that houndsmen and women are for the most part very ethical and law abiding. I'm sure that you know several of the people around here that hunt mountain lions and bobcats with hounds and all of them are as good of folks as you could ask to meet. I don't know what the number of citations per houndsman per day of hunting is compared to the biggame hunters or bird hunters or even fishermen.

Hunting bears with hounds will provide another opportunity for our youth to get out and enjoy our wilderness and wildlife. It will provide a source of respect of people for the bears. This will protect both people and bears from an early demise.

I would hope that the FWP would install regulations that protect the bears from being over hunted and provide a reasonable source of income to better manage all of our game animals. I have presented this idea on a forum on the internet and the resoponse was unanimus, everyone would try to hunt in Montana, even those from out of state. I know that out of state hunters bring in a lot of money to our local economy outside of liscences, they buy motel rooms, gas, food and some even hire an outfitter. It even trickles down to the dog food bought while they are here.

I know full well that one of the rebuttals to this idea is the Grizzly bear. I don't understand what the reason is for not being able to hunt black bears around grizzlies is for sure, but believe me, no one would intentionally chase a griz. It would most likely result in the loss of the hounds. Outside of that, I don't know what other issues there are.

Please give me a call and we could discuss this further and in more detail.

What do you guys think?

[BABCAT]

Good Work that looks great.

I will see if I can pull out my mulligan with Governer Sweitzer. A few years ago he learned my name as a result of using me for some political pawnery. (leave out the politics please I work for the guy!!) (I did get a buffalo tag out of the deal) The last time I talked to him was about instating the wolf season and he also mentioned a Griz season.. His quote to me was "If I can get the wolf off the list and hunted then I will move on to the Griz." I get a letter together (sheimer) send me any suggestions that you would like mentioned.

Well If this works we will be either the most hated or loved houndsmen in the state..

[wwy]

I am not 100% sure but I thought MT lost running black bears with dogs and using bait when they were changed to "game animal" status or however they are now classified. I believe this happened in the '20s. I don't think it originally had anything to do with grizzlies. There may have been a season between then and now I don't know.

[Rem700]

Borderpond, I stand corrected.....jsb

[BABCAT]

There is an article in Montana Magazine this month covering bear hunting. It talks about when Montana changed the laws and named Black bear a Game animal. They out lawed chasing with hounds and shooting from a bait pile in 1923..

[Borderpond]

Rem700, no problem.I actually called one of the guys I used to run with there to refresh my memory.

[Rem700]

sheimer, if you look on the ukc forum, you'll see I've been running the same topic for P.A., in the big game section, under; PA bear hunting with hounds, keep us updated with your progress....jsb

[REB]

Sheimer,any way I can help out let me know.I have talked to a state Rep. in Billings about this subject, and he would be for it.
thanks, Rick

[sheimer]

Hi guys, From what I can tell, we are doing the right thing by talking with the state reps and hopefully the Governor. The way that I look at it is....The people that have their mind made up against it(hound hunting) are not where we should spend our energy. I believe the people that have no opinion on the subject are where we can win this. I believe that good manners, proven facts, and honesty will get us to where we want to be. I will spend some time visiting with our local game Warden and see where he stands on the topic. I would like your opinion on whether or not you think that is a good idea.

Thank you for your help.

Scott

[Mt. Dog]

Scott,

Kevin Nichols has always had a decent attitude towards hound hunting with the guys who always stay out of trouble. Don't know too much about the new guy from Columbus area except that he has followed me around a little the last year.

Jim

[sheimer]

Jim, I have had some conversation with Kevin in the past before about bears. It wasn't a conversation I care to have again, but Kevin was as good as you could ask for to deal with. I have also spoken to Paul Lupke before and he was also good to deal with. I also ran across the new guy from Big Timber last fall while hunting elk and he mentioned that he would like to see more hound guys using our public ground. I took that as a good thing. I just would like to speak to all of these guys to make sure they would support hunting bears with hounds. I'd like to have them on our side from the get-go if at all possible.

Scott

[whoflungdung]

Scott great work. Dont give up. Thanks for sticking your head out. Who knows lets talk to as many people as we can and see what happens. If you have some links as to where to send e-mails please post them so we can flood there in box.

[hounder]

I'm in wherever support is needed let me know

[sheimer]

Well,

I visited again with the local State Rep last night and had a nice face to face conversation. He had no prior opinion of bear hunting with hounds and his first impression was the one I gave him. He is definitely on our side now. Although he will surely get the other side of the story soon. Hopefully he will stay on our side once he receives opposition to the idea. I have given him all the ammunition that I could think of, hopefully enough.

I also just got off the phone with the local game Worden. He has no opposition to it in my area. He believes that there will not be enough people participating locally to create any problem. He thought that in the 100 and 200 districts where there is a lot more lion hunters, there will be considerable issues and opposition from the FWP. He thought that it would be a fine management tool for bears, but not enough to get everyone in the FWP on board. The Worden mentioned that the non-hound hunters would probably be one of our largest adversaries. He assumed that they would argue that we had an unfair advantage over the non-hound guys.

I also contacted the local Wildlife Biologist for the FWP. I had a nice conversation about everything from wolves and grizzlies to lions and black bears. His opinion is that the environmental groups would use the disturbance of griz sows with cubs as a tool to prevent a black bear hunt. He also mentioned that it probably wasn't a valid argument, but that has never stopped an environmentalist. He said as a local area, we were meeting our harvest goals without hounds, so the use of them as a management tool would be a mute point.

Neither of these guys were against hunting with hounds, just not exactly for it either. I feel that we need to do a lot of talking with all of our local game wardens and biologists as well as our political leaders. We are a small portion of the people, but throughout history, the squeaky wheel gets the grease. If we as a group make as many of the people involved with making the rules aware that we want to expand our hunting rights, not just accept the fact that some are trying to remove them, we will find ourselves on the offensive, not the defensive.

If as many of you as can would just call up your local game Worden and visit with them about what we want, I think it would help considerably. Please take the time to contact your local Representative and voice your opinion. The absolute worst that can happen is everyone will find out we want to expand, not just maintain.

Thanks and please post any letters you send.


Scott