montana bear hunting with hounds

[dhostetler]

I want to clarify that I am not opposed to non residents, I have a gripe with Idaho's cap of 70 non resident hound permits, I think they should regulate it with prices. The strongests opposers in Montana to allow hounds for bears are fellow hound guys that fear us becoming overwhelmed with more houndmen. I am all for opening it wide open for everyone and then if it becomes a problem we deal with it. If nothing else you guys from ID & UT should support us either way because if it gets legal in MT you guys will get rid of us Montana bear hunters invading UT & ID.

@ Deff the wounded dog tracking bill did pass the legislature overwhelmingly, this was actually a law on the books and it was just amended to allow the carrying of any weapon while tracking a wounded animal and also keeping the dog on a max 50' leash. I think the 50' leash thing was assinine.

[dhostetler]

I sent the following e-mail to the Montana State Houndsman Association. I will let you guys know if I get a reply.

Dacia,

There is strong interest among quite a few Montana Houndsmen and Houndswomen to
try to get a bear hunting/chase season in Montana. Would the Montana State
Houndsman Association support us?

To propose a plan the the FWP Commission I think we should try to gather supporters. One method could be to set up a dedicated website where a pdf petition could be printed off and interested persons could print it off and gather signatures and mail the copies to central location. We could also advertise in the Bear Hunting magazine and other papers.

We should also try to get the Livestock and Outfitters Associations to support us.

[Gary Gentry]

[quote="dhostetler"] The strongests opposers in Montana to allow hounds for bears are fellow hound guys that fear us becoming overwhelmed with more houndmen. I am all for opening it wide open for everyone and then if it becomes a problem we deal with it.

NO!!!!!! IT IS NOT A FEAR IT IS WHAT WOULD HAPPEN!!!!! AND ITS NOT FAIR TO ANY HUNTER IN THE STATE! YOU MUST BE NUTS!!!!!!! AND THEN IF IT BECOMES A PROBLEM THEN WE DEAL WITH IT. HA BY THEN WE WOULD NOT HAVE ANY BEARS LEFT!!!!

[Deff]

In a perfect world, quotas in the hunting districts would be established using sound biology that would maintain a healthy bear population. But----as the discussion in the lion forum (viewtopic.php?f=42&t=22651) illustrates--- those of us that hunt them for sport are ultimately the ones that monitor and safeguard the game populations.

In my area at least—if hound hunting for bears was permitted, I would expect that the total bear harvest would remain somewhat consistent with past seasons but that the quality of animals harvested would improve.
You still would have to find the bears before turning the dogs out, but, once bayed up, you would have a much better opportunity to judge the size, sex and age of the animal when choosing whether or not to harvest it.

Our neighboring states have good bear populations with hounds allowed so I wouldn’t expect an extremely huge influx of additional out of state hunters.
Since bears are such a hot button issue with preservationists, I think the FWP would be quite receptive to establishing quotas or shortening seasons should sportsmen complained about declining bear populations.

[Gary Gentry]

I hear all the time from people in Idaho and Utah and Wyoming that there bears and cats are over hunted. If we have a season it needs to be controlled! Set low harvest rates and give out low # of out of state permitts. We do not want a decline in our bears at lease I dont. there are people all a cross the country that would love to come here and hunt bears. and how many of those people really are going to want to go home empty handed after paying for permitts and the trip? not many. I know there are a few and then there are the ones that talk a big game. I also dont want to go to where I hunt and see five or more out of state trucks sitting there. I dont mind out of state hunters as long as they are not rude and respect our state, woods and game. I was elk hunting once in a area that I have been hunting for over 15 years seen some out off staters so I asked them where they where planning on hunting so that we would not mess one anther up. they had the balls to tell me I could not hunt there it was there spot!!!! all 18 squares I asked? then they had this dumb ass look on there face and said well we where here frist and paid a lot of money for this hunt you live here and can hunt it any time. BS!

[larry]

Gary, you are getting hung up on minor workable stuff and not looking ahead to the big picture. I'd rather have it and figure out how to make everything work well than worry about what might be negative and not have it at all. I think your concerns are unfounded. We are not going to decimate the bear population, no other state that allows hounds has. Look at idaho, bait, spot and stalk and hounds, still plenty of bears! We don't get overrun with out of state houndsmen during lion season, why would it be different with bears? I beg to differ that all nonres tag holders are gonna kill. I have driven all the way to California just to chase, had to have a tag, but had no intention of using it. We allow nonres hunters to hunt every other season on the books in MT and they are not decimating our populations, sure you see nonres plates here and there, but not to the point you are over exagerrating it. It also creates income for the mom and pop businesses and local small economies, how is that bad? Its a big state with more than enough country and bears to go around. Not everyone is gonna run straight for your 18 squares. Quotas are fine, but lets not restrict ourselves into loosing the season shortly after we manage to get it. I'm shocked that anyone with hounds would show aprehension to the idea of a bear season.

[dhostetler]

I am not a fan of nonresidents either I could spend all day telling stories about how nonresidents screwed up my cougar hunting. Number one I want bear hunting with hounds legalized one way or another however we need to agree what we want to support so I am willing to negioate on almost anything that will allow us to pursue bears. I think the worry about non residents flooding us is way overblown, where will they come from? Wisconsin hunters were our biggest problem in NW Montana during the pre - permit cougar hunting days. Wisconsin already has a bear season, so do UT & ID, so why would hunters from those states come here if they can hunt in there own states?

I do most of my hunting in NW Montana and our kill season in most units close May 15th which is before half the bears emerge. In unit 100 I have never found bear sign before May 1st except grizzly. We also have a lot higher bear population here than Idaho's 2 bear units which stay open till June 30th (I have frequently hunted those areas). What I am trying to say is we have an overabundance of bears in Montana. I don't really care about a kill season at all, I would be happy with a chase season only but I also think we shouldn't limit ourselves to chase only.

[dhostetler]

According to the Idaho FWP from 1996 to 2008 15.29% of the bears were killed with hounds & 28.19% were killed over bait. Here in Montana we have neither nor seasons open past 5/31st or 2 bag units which Idaho has. I personnally think the Montana kill rate could increase 25% without hurting the overall population.

But let me state again for the record I desperately want a chase season but don't really care about a kill season but would like to have one.

[dhostetler]

Following is the e-mail reply from the Montana State Houndsman Association.

Duane,

I have visited with some biologists in FWP. They do have some reasons for not
having a chase season in MT for bear. It has partly to do with the already liberal
season for bear in MT and that those seasons do come under fire. Recently, they do
have better numbers due to their DNA study. Have you asked the FWP what the
likelihood of getting a chase season is?

Regardless, we will bring it up at our meeting in June. If the club supports
anything, it must be voted on by the members.

Please let me know if you have any other questions.

Thanks,
Dacia

[larry]

Sounds like a polite f@#k off to me. One of the many reasons I'm not a member. Liberal season? Really? No bait, no dogs, spring and fall, just like every other state pretty much, except not as liberal, ha ha! Houndsmen asso. is a drop in the bucket. This can and should be done without them

[Gary Gentry]

I would like to see a chase season and kill season I just want it regulated.

[pistol]

Are there even bears within a hundred miles of Sidney..Gary? I know were i live u can go out on any day and at least see a bear and sometimes 2 . Ive been in this state for 30 years and have seen only seen 1 lion without dogs in the wild and during the season we can still catch 30 plus lions a year and 75% of those are dif lions. So if i can see 1 bear a day when im out messing around just think about how many bears go unseen. Im not wanting to kill all of them im just saying that your side of the state is different than mine and you do see alot of out of staters and im sure its hard to deal with them. We def dont get the pressure here and if we get a season the Idaho hondsman would be happy for us to get out of there state cause its only an hour drive. So what im trying to say is i dont think we need to worry about out of state pressure. FWP is just not going to say..seasons open kill kill kill..there's going to defenitly have to be regulations and im sure the out of state license will have to be a draw and the quotas will be low for them just like the lions are. And Larry i totally agree with u on what u said about..if u have hounds u should totally be for this!!!! You couldnt have said it better cause its just common sense really!

[Gary Gentry]

no there is not bears here..... this is not where I bear hunt in fact it is a 11 hour drive to where I do hunt bears... farther then many out of state hunters have to travel! bears and cats are diffrent you cant go by what you see I have never seen a lion grazing in a open clear cut ether!

[pistol]

Your wrong Gary..We can go by what we see. We see the bears..we see problem bears in the paper everyweek..we see FWP traps being pulled around..we see bears in town and close to town...we see bear and livestock encounters. Thats why we need to do something cause the facts are there.

[larry]

I'm still a little confused as to the overall plan here. Seems pretty scattered and unorganized at this point. A lot of talk. I would like to see the formation of an entity to channel all progress and effort through. Goals, lists, allies, and contributions that need to be made and funneled to said entity. Seems that everyone wanting to get this done needs to make their contributions as representatives of said entity to keep things on track and organized. Getting our poop in a group to move forward so to speak