montana bear hunting with hounds

[dhostetler]

Larry,

Yes I agree can't figure out what is so liberal about our seasons however it wouldn't hurt to have them endorse our idea. People in goverment like big fancy names and it might give us more credibility if we are supported by an association versus just some guys on the internet.

I also agree we should form an enity however I would like to beg off of being the head honcho as I already run a business with 20 employees and would rather not be saddled with another headache. Anybody volunteer? I would vote for jbc67 as he already has his state legislator in his back pocket and also seems to have good ideas. I will be more than willing to help financially.

[larry]

I agee Duane. I am of the opinion that we create the asso that is backing us instead of being guys on the internet. I'm willing to contribute also, just need the right person to step up and start rollin on this..

[Rico]

I belive that we are starting to get somewhere still along ways from a bear season with hounds but I do think there is a lot of good input. I have spoke with a few guys on here about a bear season with hounds along with guys that are not on here about it. Fisrt of all I am definatley for a bear season with dogs. Most of the guys that I have spoke with about it that are on the fence, are guys that are more concerned about the effects it may have on cat hunting rather than bear hunting.

We may see an increase in hounddoggers with a more liberal season to run hounds.

I would like to see the out-of -state hunters be on a permit system. I think that the F&G may frown on a quota system as they are alot of work for them. Maybe we should just have say a 2 week kill season, but a very liberal chase season. This may keep it a little more simple and may keep some of the rift raft out. These are all just ideas that are being throwing out there maybe they wont work.

This being said, I am the V.P. of the Montana Houndsmen Ass. they are in a bit of a turmoil at the moment. I will not be at the June field trial and meeting but I have already spoke with a few people about bringing it up at the meeting and see if they would be willing to back this proposal. New officers will be elected at the june meeting. If they are not willing to back this maybe we should form or own enity. Montana Houndsmen Bear Hunters Association I know I would pay to be a member and I am sure that I could get 20-25 other people to become members. Jason Levine 799-1451

[Deff]

I was a bit troubled by the shoot the messenger tone of some comments after the secretary of the association reported that some FWP biologists were not supportive of this proposal but promised that the subject would be brought up before the membership at the June meeting. That is about all any one individual of an organization can do.

Generally associations are what you make of them. How many on this forum besides Jason are members, attended meetings, or made your views known to the existing Montana State Houndsmen Ass. officers or directors? If the MSHA is content to simply put on a couple of field trials and serve cookies and donuts rather than fight for expanded hound hunting opportunities – then it is because a complacent membership has permitted this to happen.

If the Montana State Houndsmen Ass. shows no interest in pursuing a bear chase season and another club is formed, it will require time, dedication, effort and cash. Ya got any extra?

[larry]

Where was MSHA when lion quotas were doubled throughout parts of the state last year? If MSHA is the supporting backbone entity of this movement, keep trying to draw in Id. There are worker bees and slugs in life, the lack of enthusiasm and jump on and get it done attitude or questioning of the liberal season BS excuse in the MSHA email makes it clear which category they fall into. Instead of trying to motivate an organization that has a lackluster background at best on controversial change making issues, why not start one that has one specific tunnel vision goal and membership all after the same thing? No other issues or member votes to worry about or needed. Sure the MSHA can give their endorsement, but that's about all yer gonna get from em either way, too many field trials and donuts to serve. Monies will come with membership, anyone that wants this would not have a problem paying dues to both organizations, eliminating those in the MSHA that would be opposed and eliminating any need for MHSA to determine if membership wants this. You want something done right, do it yourself and let MSHA come along for the ride if they want. An organization is absolutely what its membership is, all the more reason to start one that is highly motivated.

[kehrer10]

montana big game houndsman association....... no bench shows, no field trials, no donuts! Maybe an organization that is here to protect and fight for what we love and fight for our future. I'm way too dumb to be the leader of any organization like this, but I want to do something.

[pistol]

Well im totally for just forming are own group to take this to battle! I think if all of us get just 2 or 3 people that arnt on this website to help out we would have a perty good group to help get this going. I think were finally past the bickering stage and now we need to form some kind of a draft so we can all go from there. Sounds like we all want little out of state pressure but still want to offer them a draw season but how about for us? Are we wanting a 2 week kill season or 3 week...and do we just do a kill season in the spring and then have a chase season after that or do we just go for it and have a spring and fall season and try to chase during the summer or do we do a chase and kill season after the spring spot and stock season is over to aviod conflict with other sportsman? Just some of the ideas i have been picking up while reading other posts. Im perty much open to anything right now cause i just want to be able to chase bears and ill get what i can take. Theres other people talking about this off this website and everybody seems to think that there will be 3million out of staters moving here and taking over and that seems to be everybody's hold up. But we just have to regulate there tags and quotas and i dont think it will be a problem. And every other state offers bear and lion seasons with hounds so i dont think they would just pack up shop and move here just so they could chase bears..it just doesnt make sense. Plus why would u move to a state just to chase bears where the wolf population succeeds maximum capasity and risk losing ur whole pack. I guess what im trying to say is once we can get past the out of staters taking over i think we can concentrate on our own goals and get this going asap!

[dhostetler]

I believe we shouldn't piss off any potential supporters. I didn't think my comment questioning the liberal season thing fell under shooting the messanger. This Dacia that I e-mailed showed on the MSHA website as being the secretary/correspondent so she may or may not be a hunter I have no idea. She replies quickly to my e-mails and I didn't find the first e-mail which I posted on here as negative as some did. They are bringing it up for vote which I consider is a good thing however I don't know if it will pass if none us are there to provide a favorable argument. Maybe we should all attend the meeting at White Sulpher Springs on June 4th and help vote a pro bear guy in as president.

The problem with these associations is that a lot of time key people are voted in because they are popular and not necessarily good managers or have the fire in there belly to push an agenda.

If we establish our own dedicated assoc. and we have someone step forward to take the lead we will know that we have a dedicated fighter on our side and someone motivated with fire in there belly. However I don't see anybody rushing forward yet....

Regarding the season I figure the FWP will not go for a dedicated kill season I believe the best strategy would be to ask to use hounds during the current spot and stalk seasons and ask for a summer long pursuit season (with emphasis on the fact that pursuit seasons will instill a greater fear in bears of humans).

[larry]

What would be required of whoever steps forward to run this? Might be easier to find that person if they know what they are signing up for. I would expect many members to contribute as much as they could above and beyond writing a check and sitting on the couch.

[dhostetler]

I would suggest set up a simple website with a printable application form for people to print out and mail the form in with a membership fee. Update a news section on the website at least once a month, maybe mail out a newsletter every quarter so our non internet friends can stay updated. If we decide to try the FWP route a core group of at least a half dozen should attend to pitch the plan. Maybe run a few adds in hunting magazines such as the bear hunting magazine.

Membership fees?? I would like to see 500 members paying $100.00 a year ($50,000.00)
however I know that would be unrealistic. The larger the membership the more clout it will have so maybe $10.00 a year per member and a special recognition on the website for members that contribute $100.00+ per year.

I could probably bring in 20 members.

Another issue could be that none of us know each other we don't want to have someone step forward and take all the money and run the guy stepping forward should at minimum provide a couple of references.

[jarlinh]

Sticky is the term used to put this conversation at the top of each and every page of the forum, from coyote hunting to the cur dog page. It will get it more traffic.

On the topic of seasons and quota's etc, my belief is that we should swing for the fence and be willing to accept a base hit. I think it is easier to put restrictions on an existing hunt rather than to always be asking for more. I feel we should ask for a season that parallels Idaho's. Spring kill, summer persuit and fall kill. When it starts on negotiation time, give up a few weeks first before any of the hunts. I would like to see an additional hound permit that replaces the hound handler permit, so for example, when the cat seasons close, our one permit is still valid that allows us to chase all three species during their respective seasons. I feel it should be over the counter, even for non-residents, but higher fee as all other permits are. I do feel a draw for non-residents should be centered around the bear permit itself. The Idaho style just chaps my hide. As residents, I feel it could and should be all over the counter permitting, both bear tag and hound permit. Quota's are good in my mind. I like the idea of being able to go hunting and get my dogs more chases even when the kill season is closed.

Has anyone been in contact with stockmens org's yet? I am a member with montana sheepgrowers assoc, and will get on the phone with them when done here.

Josh

[larry]

Spoke to HD 74 rep Max Yates and he's all for it. Says its a good thing Switzer will be gone and hopefully we can get a republican gov in office to restock fwp with some new not so liberal people. He's more than happy to sponsor a bill, says its a great idea, and he's going to start talking to other reps about a surplus of bears and mentioning hounds to them. He warned of going for too much, suggesting a hound kill quota of around 25% of historical harvest in each hd, keeping spot n stalk hunters from opposing the bill due to fear of quota closure. He has dealt with fwp on several legislative issues and feels there is no one in office at this time that would support bears with hounds. Josh
or Duane, if you want to PM me your phone numbers we can talk things over more thoroughly and possibly get the ball rolling in a proactive direction. Representatives votes are what we will ultimately need so let's let the reps that are excited about the idea tell us more ways to get them.

[Gary Gentry]

I think that we should have a 2 week kill season after the spot and stalk seasons close then a chase season after that and that should be over by aug. 15. giving a limited number of permits to out of state hunters for the kill season and the chase season.

[Cold Track]

A couple of you guys are way too worried about how many bears might get killed. Most houndsmen could give two shits about killing one, it's the oppourtunity to chase that most would want to come for.

[MTblack&tan]

I think that it would be a great idea to get an organization up and running that is dedicated to issues like this, not one that is concerned with "grand night champion" titles in front of dog names. Look at the Montana Bowhunters Association, there first objective is to preserve and protect archery hunting in Montana. Not that I agree with all their ideas and concerns, but in the end they have a lot of influence on big issues. I think they get it done with a lot of boots on the ground, by breaking the state down and having lots of representatives for each area. If we can get this all organized in a voice driven manner, I think we can be educated enough as an organization to be able to push something like this through. I think it would take every bit of the next two years to do so, but well worth it when the organization could stand at the next legislature and dish out tons of facts and information to back the cause.

Unfortunately, I think groups like MBA and others will resist bear hunting with hounds. Thats why I think it is important to get boots on the ground and opinions and facts on paper. I think focusing on "why" we should be able to pursue bears with hounds is going to be a huge stepping stone with a lot of groups and individuals. Kill season and quotas will come after. I would be willing to help in any way that I can if needed and look forward to seeing where all this excitement could lead.