help me solve a friendly argument

[huntbear]

A fellow hunting buddy and I are arguing about how aggressive a bear dog needs to be. I personal don't think that you need a dog that is chew the ears off a bear to get it to tree. The walker that I have got is that way and continues to cost me money year in and year out. Don't get me wrong all my dogs best be there holding his/her own. But over many year of bear hunting have seen bear get kick and slapped in the ass to get them up a tree. Never has worked for me maybe othershad luck but not me. My point to him is that if the bear decides his going to fight it out on the ground then that's what he is going to do. And it really doesn't matter how many dogs are there and how aggressive they are. He rea;;y would like to buy this dog. Guess I wouldn't care if I did or didn't be my price is always the same $50.00 for the dog $5000 for the vet bills he has acquired over the last 4 years. LOL The input would be great to hear. Thanks for your time.

[mondomuttruner]

This is an argument that will never be solved with all parties agreeing. I lean more towards your views in that if a bear is going to fight, it's going to fight no matter what you throw at it. There is always an exception though. I get my share of vet bills but I don't feel I have real aggressive hair pullers, and I really don't want them, just keep em bayed for however long it takes to get in there. I've seen 500lb bear tree with 2 dogs and 200lb bear that would fight all day with 6 dogs. Mind you, we are only allowed 6 dogs max. The only way to prove it would be to pull like say 6 dogs off a fighting bear after say a half hour and then give 6 different dogs a half hour to see what happens. Wouldn't be able to pull dogs off a worn out bear and put fresh dogs in, wouldn't be a fair test.

[mike martell]

Back in the Oregon days of hard core hounds and bears. I owned some pretty aggressive hounds. I hunted a pack of plotts and found a strain of walkers that would give them a close go for the money as far as being tough hard core bay dogs. I watched many bears walk and bay and try to climb a tree and the dogs would suck them down before they could hook a tree. I think to much aggression is not good. The walkers I found were pretty tough hounds if you found the right strain,just as found in all breeds. I culled a walker for wrecking my bay ups.I got to the point of getting pissed off at the dog and started sewing him up with mono fishing line when I returned home.

I would have a bear bayed and watching the action from a distance and many times I would see the Walker that was slower than the pack come bailing in and jump right in the middle of the bay up like a wrecking ball. This would cause the bear to break and more times than not, this dog would end up getting hunt, laid up and unable to hunt for weeks. That is why he was a stragler. Laid up,getting soft and missing more season than dogs should miss.Steady constant pressure is what I would strive for in a pack. It is a very fine line between a smart dog working a bear to make it climb and a dog that hits the road.

To me a bear dog is worthless until he gets hooked and returns to the game. This ruins many want to be bear dogs and how the dog returns often dictates how he controls the situation from there forward.With bear, it usually does not take long to sort the fly shit from the pepper with a kamikaze style hound. Just like a young punk who bullies others. Once he meets his match and gets his butt kicked, will tone it down some.With bear hunting you will meet your match! Vet bills are something no one needs and over my span of years,I lost one dog to a bear killing the dog and that dog I think lost his footing in tight quarters and fell off a bluff. Most hounds get killed by hunter stupidity.

In remote places like Canada, you can't own wreckless bear dogs when the closest vet is some two hundred miles away and more importantly, if you happen to make a living with your hounds,you need them all to stay unhurt, healthy and able to hunt day in a day out.Interesting discussion! One that is becoming harder to answer given the reduction in Hunting bear all across the Country. Enjoy your rights while you have them.

[JIM HARRIS]

COULD NOT AGREE MORE WITH ABOUT EVERYTHING SAID. IT IS PRETTY SIMPLE. A DOG LAID UP OR DEAD IS OF ABSOLUTLEY NO USE ALL!!! IF YOU WANT VET BILLS KNOCK YOURSELF OUT BUT IN THE END THAT IS ALL YOU ARE GOING TO HAVE. A GOOD PACK OF DOGS WITH THE RIGHT TEMPERMENT THAT GETS THE JOB DONE WITHOUT ALL THE PROBLEMS IS WHERE IT IS AT. IF SOMEONE WANTS TO GO AROUND AND MAKE ALOT OF PERSONAL NOISE ABOUT HOW HIS PACK IS ALL TORN UP ALL THE TIME THAN THAT PERSON MAYBE OUGHT TO GO SIT IN THE WOODS AND HAVE A TALK WITH HIMSELF. HIS PRIORITIES NEED A RE ARRANGEING. I CONSIDER MY HOUNDS MY FRIENDS AND I THINK MORE OF THEM THAN I DO MOST PEOPLE.

[Redwood Coonhounds]

At the end of the day my dogs' lives are worth a lot more than treeing a single bear. If the bear wins every now and again, so be it. Most of the time we're the ones who let them down and set them up for failure. I'll sure catch a lot more bears with dogs that aren't dead or laid up. That said I always have Vet bills, I've lost a few dogs, I've had very few bears get away, and treed a LOT of bears. I want a smart dog that will stay and can test a bear and call it's bluff and be smart enough to get out of the way.

[JConroy]

IMO a dog that has a high catch rate and scratch free is better than a dog that has the same catch rate but always tore up.Kind of just makes sense. I dont want a dog that hangs .

[kc]

[b&tbearhunter]

I used to think the same way.i used to say if my dogs stayed with the bear and kept barking id be there.iv changed my mind the past couple years ,if that dog dont bite he aint going to stop.he will just keep walking.you will have a hard time getting in there.a dog has to know to bite and let go and run the ones that dont will eventually cull themselves.

[Emily]

I have two dogs with complementary styles. One doesn't do anything special to intimidate a bear, but there's something about him--loud voice? big dog? brains?--that the bears respect and they will climb in front of him even if he is alone. I've never seen his mouth touch fur. The other dog is smaller, has a silly voice, and the bears have no respect for him until his mouth is on the fur. The bigger dog will distract the bear while the smaller one is wooling it, and they work very well as a team. The smaller dog makes me a nervous wreck because if he gets there first, without the intimidating dog to watch his back, he's in trouble. The bigger dog just trees with style and is a lot more fun to hunt with because I don't worry about him so much and I trust him to use his brains. The little one has more heart than brains, and is a marvel to watch pulling fur, but every time I turn him out, I expect it to be his last run. They make a good team, but the one is irreplaceable and the other is going to end up needing replacement one of these days. Yet, its still better to have one of each kind than two of the more intimidating kind.

[LarryBeggs]

Emilly is right about the team work thing. Bear dogs need to be agessive enough to protect there teammate.There is nothing wrong with getting a mouthfull of fur as long as the dog knows wich end to get ahold of and as long as his teammates grab ahold when the bear turns on the dog that has ahold.I have watched three dogs work a bear before and it was pretty amazing how much they had each others back. On the coast in thick brush you wont tree verry many bear without a dog that knows when to grab ahold and does when it can.

[Catch]

If you want to catch a high percentage of bear, your dogs need to use some Ivory. All bark and no Bite just doesn't get it done, and if one catches a high percentage of bear this way, don't ever leave that area! Just saying, if you want a bear to tear the bark off a tree to get safe, more ivory the better! If I could teach Pit Bulls to rig, trail and tree, that is what I would be hunting.

[imchestnut]

I really think this can go both ways. Let me just say though, that I really think a bad bear is bad bear no matter where it is or what you throw at it.
I think some bears can get over pressured and would be content to sit in deadfall or back themselves against a cliff and be bayed at. I think that same bear might decide to walk all day long if a couple dogs pile into a bear for no reason and force it to fight or move.
I have some bears we work for six or seven hours before we get them wore down enough and stopped long to get to them. I also hunt really roadless steep country and we probably could have killed those bears with just a few more roads to leapfrog ahead of the race.
My standard is basically this, stay and bay at a reasonable distance (a few yards), walk with them if they walk, stop and bay close enough to hold them down. If a bear is running dogs down and getting ahold of them, every dog there better be willing to pile in and scrum so one dog doesn’t get singled out but I think a lot of dogs will do this that will stay back and bay the rest of the time.
I have two dogs that I am really impressed with right now. Both dogs will scrum if it comes to that but neither is crazy. Neither gets tore up unless its really a rodeo. Both dogs, however, seem to know that they are trying to get the bear stopped and shut down. They will circle in front of it, bay at it, try to get it to turn, and then get out of the way if its not going to happen. I also have a few dogs that it will only take one bad one and they will be gone and they end up costing me vet bills every season. I’m not sure the catch rate is really that different.
Basically, stay close, never give up, and help the pack out when someone gets sucked in. If they do that, they will cost me less in the future but also catch me a lot of game.

[kordog]

i like hounds that bite but arent dumb about it . intelligence is high on my list too . working a bear hard enough so if he is on the ground he is stopped sitting on his ass to protect it from teeth. a bear should never be at rest unless he is up a tree imo.i dont want dogs that just take a bear out for a jog.i would rather sit over a bait lol.i dont want my dogs to get hurt,but i know if im not stapleing some im questioning how well they are doing the kind of job i espect cause thats going to happen mixing it up with ol blackie.its the collecting of the collars or having them mamed i can do without, but thats the chance you take running bear. kordog.