No Bear Relocation in California?

[outlaw13]

Now i heard this story through a friend of a friend but i am sure that it is true. Pretty respectable sources.
Ok down in Magalia by Chico CA there was a problem bear trapped a few weeks ago. After the bear was in the trap Fish and Whoever they are now show up and shoot the bear in the trap with a .22 (could have been a different gun). Guy goes and asks why they just shot the bear and Fish cop states that there is no such thing as relocation anymore in California. He then asks what they are going to do with the bear. Fish cop says this one will go to chico state for examination but who knows about what is done with the others.

Does anyone know if there is a truth to not relocating any bears in CA? Any one have any comments or similar story's they know like this one? SB1221 passes and every bear in a trap is a dead bear, is this how they plan on managing California's bear population? WTF!!!!!

[fallriverwalker1]

clint fiih w hasnt relocated bears for guite some time they just dont tell anyone what they do with them as for hauling to chic st thats a crock of sh//// they just haul out of the general arer and dump them there will be alot more of this .. as soon as any one can get pictures of these trap s and disposal sites we need to hammer all news sites / if you think this dosent happen i know of a state park no one can go to but a state trapper is paid to kill pigs and just leave them to rot in the sun i have pictures of his traps and piles of dead pigs , but no one seems to give a crap . this is what will happen with bears also . jim

[1bludawg]

Jim ,as you probably know we have a year long season for Mountain Lion in Oregon for rifle hunters.Its 7 months for bear in my area.You can even kill 2 here .I truly believe they don't mind a little poaching to control their numbers,but heaven forbid anyone should use a hound!

[mike martell]

Clint

I can tell you what the policy of the State of Oregon is....A trapped or fed bear is a dead bear. ODFW tried many years ago to relocate nuisance bear and found the bears are just like human felons....They end up beating the cops back home. I built a barrel trap and have it today in Southern Oregon. Policy of the State dictates no transporting of the bear, only killing is allowed by policy. Many years ago we addressed what to do and how to deal with problem bears and this subject come up.

My trap has a removable back axle and a hitch to move from property to property and easily could haul a bear any place you want them. Back in about 1997, ODFW did say they would ear tag and relocate under supervised conditions but along with the relocation comes the liability aspect....What they insinuated was simple, my buddy who owns the agricultural ground would own the liability until the death of the bear should it be relocated along with me for trapping the bear defined as second and third party liability, like every thing in America today, just more bull@$%^.....

Here is another issue you guys need to be aware of.......Those barrel traps are totally inhumane. I know for a fact, I built one and used it a lot....Bears will bust teeth biting on the metal trying to escape, the claws are badly damage from panick that sets in. the same applies to the snare, regardless of what any one tells you....These are both so damn inhumane it is pathetic and the use of any of them should be exploited to the end of the earth...People have a problem with hounds...I have a people problem!

Those that want to call B.S.....Bring it on! 26 years in one location doing bear crop damage, timber damage since 1983 and removals or controlling of hundreds of bears later....I just call bull@#$% one more time! You want to ban something, ban barrel trapping and snares. I will be more than happy to send you pictures of the trap and you use them however you see fit....Hounds are the only 100% accurate method of removal of managing the culprit animal available. I know some on here will want to call me out and that is fine....

The reason I refuse to snare in Southern Oregon is because I manage, unlike the Commission and find not all bears do damage and if I followed the policy of ODFW, I would be like Wyatt Earp and Doc Hilliday....I would kill em all....Proven 100% wrong over the years and ODFW don't want to hear the truth! They got our hounds and our money and the rest is history. By the way, in Oregon we pay to butcher many administrative removal bears and under other conditions they are dumped like trash. Especially a sow that has baby cubs....You think they are going to put a fifteen pound cub in a Government truck and be spotted driving through town? My latest bear report indicates the Commission got tired of me referencing those little baby cubs as "unknowns", so they went and labeled all of them as two year olds to save them from being humiliated, that is something I have no problem delivering.Time to shut it all down folks! Maybe I should post my letter to the commission I just sent today.....

Mike

[mike martell]

Robin

ODFW encourages poaching as long as no hounds to their knowledge are used. Rural Oregon it is common to hear the biologist say, hey, if you tree a cougar while hunting bobcats, kill it....Here is my letter sent today to the fish folks....

Dear Commission

I sure wish you folks could understand what you are doing by allowing snares to be set in the same locations year after year. Talking to Tom Thornton, it was brought to my attention the harvested bear ages are averaged over three years. Why don't you extract the number of bears killed in the McKenzie and Santiam unit by two of the hired trappers or snare guys and monitor the ages of the snared bears they turn in separate from the sport hunter numbers and monitor the kill recorded ages of the sows, boars and cubs. Speaking of cubs, why did ODFW label all cubs in the last report as two year olds?

Instead, many of those cubs shot with the snared sow are as little as five months old? This skews the entire aging process, example, cub shot and labeled as two years old when in reality it was six months old, this paves the way for 18 lost months per each animal. When you run your total average and say ten cubs were killed, you just lost eighteen years worth of reportable age of bears and when you have sows as young as what are being snared, all of a sudden, you have lost your recording base for accuracy. Please reference delayed implantation and the life cycle of bears and you will see the cubs, 100% must endure two complete snare seasons with the sow before going out on their own. All cubs are born in the den and make building this case pretty easy, you can't fudge on nature and the life cycle. Keep setting baits to lure bears for miles and you will see trends like we are experiencing in both the McKenzie and Santiam units. Three snare season ago, the two trappers killed fifty recorded bear. The next snare season yielded thirty five, a reduction of 30%.

pull up the records for this spring snare season on both trappers and do the averages and look at how many bears they killed this spring and the age. I don't have those numbers yet but speculate a reduction of another 30%. What do you have to lose? Why not take me up on this and prove me wrong? Check with any taxidermist and ask the question, how many bears are you receiving from sport hunters from both GMU's? Until you reach the National forest, bears are in trouble. You can't keep using the old analogy of bears drifting into the snared areas from the National forest. When you kill 100% of your sows and 100% of your cubs year after year, you are not managing, you are eradicating. Remember the law in Oregon? Black bears are big game mammals first and until they are proven to have crossed the line, only then do they become predator, also keep in mind, if snares are humane and we all know they aren't. Why do the trappers kill all cougar caught by accident in the snare set for bears over rank beef heads?

Cougar also are big game mammals by law and the only folks that don't understand this are the politicians in Salem that you all made believe the bear and cougar are predators for passage of both H.B. 3636 and H.B. 2390A. I now understand why only Curt Melcher and Ron Anglin handle the political lobby, You could not keep a story straight by having more than two people involved. Sport hunters will change all of this, you can't continue to think you are going all Government/ agents when you have hundreds of sport hunters, willing and able to hunt and manage the resources. The Governor is thinking about sending the National guard to police Southern Oregon in the midst of budget cuts and lost revenue and ODFW has the dollars to hire both bear and cougar killing out to agents and USDA? Pay to landfill cougar and send what bears are removed to the butcher shop?

Mike Martell

[1bludawg]

Mike ,hound hunting IS the most humane way to deal with problem animals.Keep up the good work!You make some very good points.I wish the ODFW would start to manage our wildlife and stop trying to appease the environmentalists.

[outlaw13]

[mike martell]

[mark]

If they continue on this way, they will eventually save our wildlife to death.

[mike martell]

To support my last claim about environmentalist within the commission....Let me repost the language for the 2014 mid term anti trapping initiative just in case you disagree with my statement. Pretty well written for a bunch of pot smoking liberal hippie chicks from Bend Oregon or did the commission itself sit down and write this up? You decide!....

3. Nothing in this section prohibits the Director from granting a special permit to state or federal employees or their agents to use a Conibear trap in water, a padded leg-hold trap, or a non-strangling foot snare on any public land including state owned or state leased land, lands administered by the United States Forest Service, the Federal Bureau of Land Management, The National Park Service, The United States Department of Defense, The State Parks Board and any county or municipality if it is established that there exists on the public land in question an animal problem that has not been and cannot be reasonably abated by the use of nonlethal control tools, including but not limited to changes in livestock management practices, the use of guard animals, barriers, alarm devices, hazing, or human supervision or if such nonlethal means cannot be reasonably applied. Upon making a written finding, freely available to the public, that the animal problem has not been abated by the reasonable use of nonlethal control tools and cannot be reasonably abated by nonlethal control tools or if the tools cannot be reasonably applied, the director may authorize the use, setting, placing, or maintenance of the traps for a period not to exceed thirty (30) days.

4. Nothing in this section prohibits the Director from granting a special permit to federal, state, county, or municipal employees or agents to use any Conibear trap or body-gripping trap for the purpose of protecting people from threats to their health and safety.

5. Nothing in this section prohibits the Director from issuing permits to use padded leghold traps or non-strangling foot snares for the conduct of legitimate wildlife research by credentialed professional biologists.

6. Nothing in this section prohibits the Director from granting a special permit to department employees or agents or other state agencies to use any Conibear trap or body-gripping trap where the use of the traps is the only practical means of protecting threatened or endangered species as designated under ORS 486.182.

7. Nothing in this section prohibits the United States Fish and Wildlife Service, it employees or agents, from using any Conibear trap or body-gripping trap where the Service determines, in consultation with the Director, that the use of such traps is necessary to protect species listed as threatened or endangered under the federal Endangered Species Act (16 U.S.C. § 1531 et seq.).

8. When legally employing any Conibear trap or body-gripping trap, the immediate area where such traps are deployed, on public land or private property legally accessible to the public, shall be prominently marked with highly-visible, durable warning signs.

9. Any legally employed Conibear trap, body-gripping trap, or cage trap shall be checked at intervals not to exceed 24 hours.

10. A violation of this section is a class A misdemeanor.

11. Nothing in this section shall be construed in any manner to affect the taking of wildlife with firearms, with fishing equipment, with archery equipment, or other implements in hand as may be defined or regulated by the Oregon Department of Fish and Wildlife, including the taking of wildlife pursuant to a hunting or fishing license issued by ODFW.

12. Nothing in this section shall be construed in any manner to affect the ability of any person to trap or poison mice, rats, gophers, moles, ground squirrels, or non-furbearing rodents.

13. Definitions:


a) "Trap" for purposes of this section incorporates the definition in ORS 496.004(18). For purposes of this section, this definition and the terms defined in subsection (b), (c) and (d) do not include lariats, head gates, catchpoles, or methods used to temporarily detain livestock.

b) “Conibear trap” means any trap of various manufacturers having design and operational characteristics essentially the same as or like that developed by Frank Conibear and designed and set to kill an animal instantly.

c) "Body-gripping trap" means a trap that grips an animal's body or body part.

d) "Cage trap" means a trap that allows the animal to be lured into an enclosure and closes the entryway to prevent escape and is intended to capture an animal alive.

e) “Padded leg-hold trap” means a trap designed and set to grip the foot or limb of an animal, both jaws of which are covered with rubber pads having a minimum thickness of one-eighth inch.

f) “Non-strangling foot snare” means a cable or wire designed and set to encircle and hold an animal’s foot or limb without tightening down as the animal’s limb moves.

g) "Raw fur" means the hide or pelt of any animal.

h) “Animal" means any nonhuman warm-blooded vertebrate.

i) “Person” as used in this section means any individual, partnership, corporation, association, governmental subdivision or public or private organization of any character.

................END OF BALLOT INITIATIVE..............

End of all sport hunting in America is the agenda folks! I bet if you read this, you learned something about trapping that you did not know. Again, sit back and think we are going to find the dollars in support for saving us from the what is coming sooner than you realize or just start fighting back! Time to fight for our rights!

Mike

Mike

[1bludawg]

Mike,again you make a very good point and back it up.It's to bad the rest of the hunting community hasn't caught on yet!The ODFW is not out to help hunters or fishermen for that matter .I have to agree with you again,they are a group of liberals out to stop all hunting .I hope the other sportsmen organizations wake up before Its to late!

[gameganster530]

Ill tell you where them bear go. they go to build fish fuzz drags and bear paw shoes to mis guide houndsmen and try to catching honest people doing nothing wrong

[outlaw13]

[mike martell]

I pulled this off of another site and copied and pasted to get folks to thinking....This is the mentality of what and who we are dealing with...Let me also remind you, any of us displayed threats of terrorism openly on a public forum like firegirl 22 just did, firegirl22?, maybe she is a fire fighter? What do you think her screen name reflects? We would all be behind bars, but as long as you are a liberal Obama Democrat, its okay.....Pathetic defines the opposition!

Read this nonsense below....

firegirl22


ya know why they aren't condemning the ALF? because most of the people that work for them have a passion for stopping animal abuse so large that they secretly wish they could break the law to protect the animals. hell, THE LAWS should be on the side of the animals. but they aren't. the LAW is on the side of humans that can fend for themselves off the lives of the animals. screw those assholes that got their horsemeat production plant burned down. the voices of the people arent heard so someone went out and made em listen. WE DON'T WANT TO EAT HORSES! BURN DOWN THE PLACE!! seriously. animal abuse isnt taken seriously enough by the general public. the ALF is doing what needs to be done to STOP THE ABUSE because spoken campaigns dont work fast enough. listen to you up there saying that the HSUS has to condemn the acts of other animal leagues. screw you. those animals need help. the ALF is providing that help, the only way it can, just like the other companies

[1bludawg]

Clint ,it maybe crazy but i and a lot of other people have thought the same thing .Does anyone know if they have enough signatures for the anti-trapping measure yet?I know that's not a problem for the liberals here in Oregon but i haven't read anything about it lately.