Roughed Up Bear Dog Question

[UNFORGIVEN]

Was just wondering what success rates have you all had with young dogs under the age of 2 that have been caught fairly decent by a bear. For example have you seen most of them quit completely, run but are never aggressive again or unaffected with time. Also same question but for dogs that have a little more age on them.
Also how much time would you give a dog that was roughed up and still running bears but not pressuring.

[Jeff Eberle]

They will come back either pissed off , the same as before , half hearted or not at all. It just depends on the dog. At 2yrs old should have enough bears under it belt that time off other then to heal isn't going to make much of a difference. They are either real bear dogs or dogs that uses to run bear, Hope it all works out for you.

[UNFORGIVEN]

This is just a question not experiencing problems at the moment. Was just curios as to what others have experienced.
What would you say the odds have been for you Jeff. Most the dogs I have seen come back half-hearted and end up being culls. Probably 90% or better if they were under 2 years old.

[tman308]

I have a5 year old dog that has been bit on the back swat off of a boulder and recently had a large chunk out of his back leg bit off and was still treeing the bear. like was said before they either have it or they don't

[UNFORGIVEN]

Sounds like a nice Dog Tman. I understand they either have it or they don't. The question is how many others did you have that had similar experiences that didn't have it. And how much time did you give them before you decided they didn't have it. For example if your dog wouldn't have been at the tree would you have cut your loses or give him more opportunities to see if he would come around.

[HighlandHounds]

The same principles apply to all working dogs, like has been said, they either have it or they dont. These are times when flaws in past breeding will come to the front.

[cobalt]

Grit is a tough trait to breed for in bear hunting. Everybody has their own definition. My opinion in a general sense is a dog needs to have what it takes genetically, but you can't judge a dog on genetics alone. The experiences that a dog sees while it's growing up coupled with its genetic makeup are what makes a finished dog. Luck is a huge factor.
A 7 month old pup thrown in on a bayup can spell disaster even if the dog has good gritty genetics.
Many experienced bear hunters don't like a dog that continually gets mauled. It seems like the older a dog gets, the worse the injuries.
There are no cut and dried answers because of the variety of variables including the way in which a hunter handles the dog after it's been mauled.
For me, stay is more important than stupid.
I would say 95% of all dogs owned by real bear hunters (people who've caught bears consistently for several years) have been injured by a bear at one point or another. Most return to the game.

[UNFORGIVEN]

Thanks for the reply Cobalt this was more of what I was looking for. I would be interested in hearing more on what you mean by how a dog is handled after its been mauled. I would agree with your statement that most dogs I've seen that were good bear dogs were caught at least once in there life. And returned to the game. I think if your going to play with fire occasionally your going to get burned.

[cobalt]

Obviously the older a dog is, the easier the recovery, considering that the dog has been on many successful bear catching missions and has more of an understanding and a stronger, more mature constitution (mental structure) when it comes to its job.

As I said there are no cut and dried answers. One must look at the options first and second the dog. Options might include leaving the dog at home and hunt without them or just not turn them out, but do take them. Seeing how they react to situations help make decisions on what protocol to take to help the dog recover. Some dogs rebound after a time of being left out some get right back after it. The question becomes "how much time and patience one has to sort out the depth of the dogs dysfunction and how long it may take".If I had a young dog that got caught good, I would test the waters and throw them in a race soon after the incident and physical recovery. If the dog quits the track in one minute, I would not throw it for a time, maybe a month, but work with it continually (roading or other non-hunting activities). If the dog runs 45 minutes in a 1 hour race, I might not run it on a couple races , but keep it in the truck and turn it into several trees where I could show it a bear while I'm there so I can build confidence. If it trees like a demon pull all the dogs back see if it trees solo. Take things slow and deliberate. Pressure on the dog makes a difference.
My example is crude because if we could put the dog in specific situations, training would be much easier. Taking advantage of the opportunities provided considering amount of time hunting and training, dogs in the pack, bears being pursued, etc., etc., hopefully provide a person enough opportunity to fairly give a dog the chance at rehabilitation.
We all have our own way of dealing with these obstacles. It all depends on where we are in our hunting experience. Many times it is best to pull the plug. Sometimes a bit of patience pays off with a great dog. You never know. There are too many anecdotes of rights and wrongs to know what is right and wrong. Rehabilitation is a process with any animal including humans. The more effort made, the more likely a good outcome is possible. I try to speak from what I've seen in other packs and in my own. To write a detailed process with detailed examples would take way too much time for this forum and me. I think in the end it will just be a learning experience for you.

Good Luck.

[justahunter]

My strategy is that I want to make them or break them . I like them mean ones they let me know what a dog really is. I don't care how old (over 9 months so I do care a little lol) the dog if it gets whooped and stays whooped that dog does not have a home at my house anymore. Vet bills suck but treeing the bear or catching is all worth it to me . A good dog will always be a good dog . A weak hearted dog will always have that weakness . That's the way I see it and it works very well for me.

[tman308]

once they've been beat up I separate them and put them in a kennel by themselves and give them some extra attention while im doctoring their wounds once the wounds heal I throw them back in. I will give them a couple races to see how they do since I don't exclusively hunt bears sometimes they will still be a good lion dog. I too like a smart dog that doesn't necessarily want to get beat up. sometimes I think it just goes with the territory of chasing bears you gonna get dogs hurt. the problem with the dog I talked about earlier is I think he holds a grudge the more hurt he gets the meaner he gets towards the bear ultimately he will probably get killed by a bear at some point in his life. last year I had a dog get rolled by a bear it took four more bear trees after that for the dog to regain its confidence. Like it's been said many times before every dog is different and you will have to gauge that individual dog. Good luck brother keep them in the tree

[Nolte]

I don't have any set rules, but I try to keep a young dog out of too much bayup stuff their first hunting year. Granted it happens but I generally try to get the temperature of the bear before turning them in (track size, wait for jump, etc). I like them to get their feet wet and confidence up before really putting them in the fire. I have seen a pile of young dogs get overhauled and never make it in the stay caught department. Once they have figure it out pretty good, then I try getting them in on a few catches (with good company) to see how they react. Some ease it, some go wide open, and others just plain don't want any part of it. And I can't tell what it's going to be until crunch time. But if one does get clipped, we let them heal up and then try them on a few easier runs before putting them back in the fire.

I really think one of the best things you can do for a young dog is to let them experience bay ups when they've got good company. If they're in with quitters, it's easier to pull the plug. The next best thing you can do is after they've got a little experience with bayups is to down one for them while on the bayup. They seem to learn that they will "win" if they stick it out. Unless you've got an exceptional special dog, it most likely isn't going to go out and stay caught for hours on end with no help. Those type of dogs are pretty rare. Hell they are rare even for older dogs.

There is also a difference in dogs that stay caught on little mean bear vs big rough bear. Not all big bear are rough but some are. Both big/little bear can inflict some damage on a dog, but big bear seem to intimidate dogs just with their size. I can understand not wanting to go toe to toe solo with something that outweighs them by 10 times. It takes a lot of little man syndrome to want any of that action.

[dhostetler]

The old guy that got me started hunting always said the worst mean bears are 175 pounders. As they are much more agile than larger bears and at that size they are strong enough to inflict a lot of damage.

[JBurnette]

from my experience I have good success with hounds that still want bear than dont want them after being roughed up but I also try and boost there confidence quickly and often . I beleive repetition is key. I had a young hound this year for instance that was doing great and got pounded and he was lally gagging to the tree afterwards. He came to me and I just ignored him ,I walked to the tree and tied up the others far back and tied him up close and kept letting the bear come down and he would put him back up . He soon gained his confidence back and I kept praising him . He is now 12 months and is an alligator on a bear .