Fast Off Dog Slow Hound

[Walkerdirt]

First post on the forum but I've been enjoying the wealth of knowledge that's on this page since I started training my pups.

I have two young dogs/hounds. The first is a GSP x American bull dog and the other is a Walker. Both have great noses but the GSPx is crazy fast on the trail during training and in the field. They both get there but the GSP makes it to the end of the drag in half the time and doesn't bark when he gets there. The hound is a freak athlete but takes his time when trailing. I had planned on using the GSPx as a versatile hunting dog which he is but with only one hound to hunt lions in AZ I thought I could run him with the hound but if he's tracking that much faster he might end up at the tree much faster than my hound which could be bad for him if he's just hanging out under a lion in AZ.

With all that being said I have two questions. How can I help my hound trail faster and what's the best way to get a quiet "off dog breed" to bark/be aggressive at the tree?

[VARMIT HUNTER]

SEND ME A PM AND GLAD TOO SEE NEW BLOOD IN THE HOUND WORLD. DO YOU HAVE ANY EXPERIENCE TRAINING HUNTING DOGS OF ANY KIND? THE REASON I ASK IS NOT TO PICK BUT TO SEE WHERE YOUR BASELINE IS AND THERE IS NO SHAME IN BEING A NEW GUY SOME OF US WERE LUCKY ENOUGH TO BE BORN INTO TO THIS AND SOME OF US HAD CLOSE FAMILY FRIENDS WHO GOT US INTO THIS GREAT SPORT OF HOUND DOG OPERA. S/FI

[Mike Leonard]

Most likely in training you are running on fairly fresh or warm scent. The GSP although a good tracking dog at times is bred to take a good deal of the trail out of the air, and thus is not as ground rooted as the hound. This means on hot scent he will be faster winding the scent high and driving the airborne scent, thus faster. However on most actual trails in the field other than jumped tracks (you stated lions in Arizona) the scent will be tight to the ground and will take ground trailing and thus the full hound will likely be right there or will take over the track, because that is what they are bred for.

Nothing wrong with running a combination dog with your hounds, I do the same thing, but you will never make a full hound out of a bird-dog bull dog cross. They might be wonderful game catchers but they just go about it in a different manner.

As far as treeing and opening more on the track, that is a bred in quality and sorry but few GSP's open on trail, and if they did they would be culled quickly by bird hunters.

Get them to some lions in the tree, he may surprise you how once he gets in on real action and may sound off like when he sees the cat.

As far as them getting there first, you always take a chance of that happening and if he lives thru a touchy exchange he will probably make all kind of noise the next time.

For fun and laughs and some good action watch some of Dave Carlson's videos from his lion dog training in Arizona. Dave runs quite a few bird dog crosses and they catch lions in some bad country.

[Walkerdirt]

Mike, thanks for the reply. What you said makes a lot of sense. I've noticed the GSP trailing with his head up and the hound just pounds the ground. I'll do an experiment next time I take them out for a training session and age the trail for a few hours at least before I cut them loose and then see who gets there first. I can definitely see the breed characteristics come out in both dogs on the trail. The GSP x Bulldog runs the kennel wresting sessions. ha.
Varmint Hunter, I'll shoot you a PM but I trained my lab x pit to bird hunt but that was a easy because she just did it from day one. Very little training was required but she still out hunts most of my friends labs. I've had my GSP pup since he was 3 months and wanted to get him into blood trialing wounded deer after my dad lost a nice Coues last season and I lost a decent mule deer a few years before. The whole process was fun enough that it got me thinking about lion hunting with hounds. I wouldn't say I'm all in but I'm definitely fired up to get on some fresh lion tracks.

[Mike Leonard]

Sounds good, and I bet you have some fun doing it. I have some crossed British Labrador on Southern Arizona dry ground lion dog young dogs that quite amazing.

Their mother the Lab is a very old style heavy type that has a nose like a bloodhound, and the father was is out of some of the best dry ground blood in the country. These young dogs will get down and trail like a full hound but also can throw their heads up and listen and look and cut right to the chase. This cross makes excellent antler dogs and blood trailers, but also fur or feather they will go for it and they tree great, and several of them open on strike and then use their mouth sparingly until the jump and then they open up and sound like they are caught in a trap. LOL!

[Bluedog88]

My pit/heeler mix has been hunting with hounds 2 seasons some high picthed yipes on the cold trails. It goes to full cry once it's jumped to the tree. Seems to me dogs with strengths and weaknesses can learn of each other. The things that might be about impossible to teach them yourself.