which pack saddle

[Riley Dabling]

I have been around horses and mules my whole life but just recently started to go on some short pack trips. Up until now I have been using a pair of saddle panniers to put my stuff in and now I want to move on to using a pack saddle. My question is which one? Decker or Sawbuck, I do a lot of elk hunting and deer hunting and the last few years we have gone into the head waters of the Yellowstone and Thorough fare rivers for fishing. Also what kind of panniers would be a good pair that could handle just about all my needs for hunting or camping. I have been looking at the Utah panniers. Thanks in advance.

[Bdog]

It really depends on your preference but if your packing standard hard sided boxes or game bags a decker makes it pretty simple when your first starting out. Clip or hang and then manty it. If you have access to guys who use sawbucks and willing to help you out I would learn both.

Bruce

[switzie]

You can't go wrong with either one but when I'm in packing on yellowstone and thorough fare I use sawbucks and bear proof panniers.

[Riley Dabling]

I luckily live next to a man who builds his own pack equipment. I have asked him about what he thinks and he has told me to ask around not to just take his word for it. He prefers the saw buck but he is old school all the way. He doesn't even use panniers he manties everything. What kind of hard sided panniers do you think.

[catdogs]

The sawbucks have been around for centuries and definatley work. Anywhere south of Idaho and Montana you'll find them to be the norm. With sawbucks you have 3 loads typically, one on each side and also a top load. the Decker style has only been around since 1908. They evolved for the heavier loads of ore taken to mill sites in northern Idaho. They are a far more versatile saddle. They have a half breed with extra padding that cushions the load and a pack board that distributes weight across the rib cage, you can bend the dees to change the pitch of the bars for a better fit on the back, and you can change the fire of the cinch, none of which you can do with a standard saw buck. Their are only 2 loads on a decker. You can pack a top load but it is rarely done. The greatest advantage of the Decker is that you don't have to weigh the loads and you are not restricted by the size of a panyard. You can easily pack sides that are 20 pounds diffferent in weight, once you get the hang of balancing the load. The heavy side has to go higher, or you can lower the lighter side til you get a nice even rock. There are Deckers today that combine some sawbuck features like "ears" on the dee's for hanging panyards and there are sawbucks that have features of the deckers, like half breeds and adjustable cinches. Sawbuck saddles are lighter, cheaper, and easier to learn to use, but in my opinion, I would never pack anything but a decker if given the choice, and I have been packing for the last 20 years in ID, WY, MT and AK.

[Riley Dabling]

catdogs thanks for the info. Are there any good packing books out that go into detail about pack equipment. This summer will be my crash course on everything packing so as much info as I can get the better. What about britchings do you like leather or the synthetic padded type better. What kind of decker can be used for both horse and mule. Are the trees adjustable.

[catdogs]

You can find pack saddles rigged with both biothane and leather. Biothane is basically a rubber coated nylon webbing. It is cheaper, lighter, weather proof and rodents won't chew on it. I have a couple rigged in Biothane, but my Dad being on old school packer and saddle maker hates the looks of them. He calls them my Darth Vader saddles... Leather obviously has the more traditional look, but requires oiling, gets stiff when cold and will hold sweat so rodents may chew them up. It is also heavier and more expensive. The obsolute best trees are the old OPR trees made by O.P. Robinette and are stamped OPR on the bars and were all made of Aspen or Cottonwood which is much less likely to crack than Pine or Fir. He made trees into the 1940's I believe and they are very hard to find anymore. He sold all his jigs to Ray Holes saddle shop in Grangeville, ID and they continue making some great trees.

To properly fit the bars to the animal, strip the saddle of all rigging, put some flour on the pack animals back and set it up there. You should have no high points. You should see a uniform layer of flour on the bars of the saddle. If not, bend dee's so that you get maximum surface area making contact with the pack animals back. You can also rasp any specific contact points of the bars down with a horse shoe rasp. Once the tree is fit, start with the the placement of the cinch. Bars of the tree should be up in the pocket behind the shoulder. A good starting point is to line up the front dee with the back of the front legs, and that should be pretty close. The back pad of the "spider" should be a hands width rearward from the top of the hip. Then move to the britchen, it should be two hands width below the point of the rump. It should also be angled slighlty upward in the front to "cup" the rumps when going down hills and to also match the slope of the rear leg. There should be a hands width of slack in both the britchen and the breast collar. A mule uses alot more of his arm pit than a horse does, so my general rule of thumb is 3/4 fire or less on a mule and 3/4 fire and above on a horse. I run my cinch at about 7/8 fire on a horse and 5/8 on a mule. There are a few books out there for packing. For deckers, Smoke Elser's book, Packin in on Mules and Horses is a good one and for sawbucks, Joe Back's book Horses, Hitches and Rocky Trails. Both will give you the basic hitches, but are a little outdated in my opinion.

Really watch for wear marks where your rigging lies on a mule or horse and adjust accordingly. There is no reason to be rubbing hide on these pack animals. Your general rule of thumb is to pack 1/5 of the animals body weight. That is the optimum load. The Army Corps of engineers determined this number early on and is good for 25 miles a day, 6 days a week. They can obvioulsy carry more, I have loaded 400 pounds on a mule before and Smoke packed a Grand piano into the heart of the Bob Marshall that weighed over 600 pounds but was only going about 6-7 miles per day.

It really all depends on how much packing you are going to do. If its just an occasional trip here and there, panyards are hard to beat whether on a decker or a sawbuck. I teach packing classes throughout the summer and you can find a lot of packing info on my site here http://www.royaltine.com/forum/index.ph ... ,23.0.html

Good Luck!

[Riley Dabling]

Catdogs,
Thank you very much for your time and info. Lots of stuff for me to get started on, I will keep you posted on my progress and maybe have a few more questions for you down the road. Thanks again
Riley

[lonehunter]

If you are looking for books on packing I would recommend two
"Packin' In On Mules and Horses" by Smoke Elser and Bill Brown which is the best of the two , has great pictures and illustrations.
The second book is " Horse Packing In Pictures" By Francis W. Davis Its not quite as detailed as Smokes book but is a good one also.
There is also a good video out called "Packing Horses and Mules" not sure on who made this one.
I prefer to use Saw-Bucks, have for years and have had no problems on my horses or my mules. It's real easy to carry game in them and the top pack is nice to carry your soft things like clothes, tents, sleeping bags, etc.
Check out these books and they should answer your questions good luck.

Lonehunter

"I have never rode a good horse or hunted a good dog that was a bad color"

[Spencer]

Catdogs, I checked out your site. A lot of good stuff there, thanks for posting the link.