Britchen or crupers?

[Flatlander]

Which do ya'll like best Britchen or crupers? About to get my first mule and woundering what is best.

[catdogs]

Cruppers are a lot lighter and simpler which I like. If you rig it so you can snug it up when you need it right from the saddle they won't tend to sore around the tail as if you leave it snug all the time. Some animals take a little gettin used to having something under their tail. I think a britchen might hold a saddle in place a little better though. Gotta have one or the other on a mule for sure. Straighter backs and no whithers = a ride "over the handlebars" without a britchen or crupper!

[Mike Leonard]

Here in the very steep desert mountain you will seldom see a crupper used. Days of sliding and riding down these steep inclines will sore a mule's under-tail. We normally use a sturdy breeching and with the tugs low and tight.

My breechings were made by Scott Derringer and they are made out of the finest Herman oak heavy leather and all brass hardware. Scott knows what it takes for he lion hunted all that sateep Arizona country. I fit a center dee in the back of my saddle to attach the top of the breeching but I have seen a lot of old timers run a strap all the way under the saddle and up front to the gullet.

I even use breechings on mutton withered horses to keep the saddle from working worward behind their legs and galling them.

[sheimer]

I'd have to say that a britchen is the way to go. No adjusting once in place and they look a lot nicer. I was also told by some old timers that a britchen will help get a horses ass under him when learning how to go down steep stuff. I don't know the truth about that, but the old timers got old by knowing their stuff.

Mike - What riggin are you using on your saddle? I run a 7/8 and wish that I had a 3/4 on a mutton withered horse.

Scott

[Big Mike]

A breechings probably holds a saddle a little better. And when you attach it to the D rings on your cinch it garantees your cinch wont ride foward a gall your mule. This year i switch to a cruper just to give it a try and lighten my load. My mules have a little wither to them and hold a saddle well so i figured a cruper would work. I was really impressed on how well it worked and never rubbed my mules raw (which I kinda expected it to do). But I dont ride the same mule day after day. I think if I was to ride a cruper on the same mule for 3-4 days in a row it might start to sore them but I dont know for sure. For pack saddles breeching is the way to go. I bought a breeching from Colorado saddlry which didnt hold up very well and i didnt like the design so I would suggest not buying one from them, but I liked their crupers

[Mike Leonard]

Most of my saddles have 7/8 rigging as well. My old Heiser saddle that works well on a mule has a 3/4 single rig. It works fine I just feel a little weird about setting on such a light little saddle but it certainly his nice to throw up there.

I agree the crupper is fine if you switch often, and down in the Mexican mountais you will see them used a bunch, but most of them guys don't care if they sore a mule or not. They just grab another.

I was riding a dun mule in the Gila country some years ago. He was a dandy mule and smooth traveling son of a gun. I had an old cheep breeching that I borrowed and it didn't do the job and after about 5 days I galled Banjo a little and I had to centerfire sling my saddle too keep riding him. That works fine and I should have done this to start with. With the breechings that Derringer built for me you have them to the dees and low and even a 7/8 will work on most mules fine.


Had a guy hunting with me some in Colorado some years back he had a couple of bronc mules he was working. They were fine looking animals but he had no handle on them at all and he was trying to work them with an old cheap rope type bosal. Well I had this one big canyon that we would climb up out and then start rimming around cutting for sign. He had sored this bay john mule really bad and he was ouchy and I told him he needed to pull that cinche back and I would fashion a breeching out of his rear cinch which I have done before using light rope , and it would ease up on that mule. Well he didn't want that the crupper was doing ok he said.

Well it was obvious it wasn't, but he got in a battle with this big stout john mule about half way up that grade and he went to jeking him around trying to double him and get control. Well the old mule got tired of it and decided he was going back to the truck. Down off that steep grade went that jack ass and he was a clipping pretty good and had this old tall kid up there a pulling for all he was worth and cussing a blue streak. I didn't even turn my horse to go help him I figured that mule would school him a little and I would just go on and look for a lion track. Well when I got back to the truck some hours later ( and it was my truck and I had the keyes in my pocket). He had that mule tied up there and he was laying in the back of the pickup just drunker than a skunk. He had a bottle of cheap whiskey hid in his saddle bags and he decided he was going to drink it and did .The whole pint of Old Popskull was laying there empty. Well I loaded my dogs and my horse and then went ahead and loaded the mule and he never even blinked an eye. I finally got him woke up and he came too looking like he saw a ghost. Then he said let me borrow you gun I want to shoot that mule. I told him I wouldn't do that and if he wanted to shoot that mule he would have to do it when he got home with his own gun. Well I got him loaded up and he passed back out till I rolled into his place. His wife not all that happy to see him in that condition. I don't think he ever shot that mule but I think his wife schooled on him harder than the mule did.LOL!

I will never forget seeing him going off that hill pulling and that old mule just headed out of there. Reminded me of one of the old Cowpoke cartoon calendars. LOL!

[Cowboyvon]

I use a set of britchens on my mules and they work just fine .. I've never used crupers but it seems like it just stands to reason that eventually they would sore em up in this country. I always hook them up to the cinch and this keeps the cinch back.

I've gone out and made a couple of circles with Sid Savage in the last month and he is riding a mule that really travels nice but is about 3/4's bronc.. he rides this mule with a night latch rigged on his saddle.. the first morning we went out I asked him if that thing was necessary, and before he could answer that mule swapped directions and humped around in circle there for a minute.. now Sid ain't no spring chicken but he's been to the NFR a guess a couple times and can ride a bronc... I told him he should think about getting something a little easier to get along with, he told me he had to ride that one because he had to much money in her.. so asked how much he paid for her he said too much... 300.00 dollars

Mike Leonard

Do you know a saddle maker up by Farmington or Bloomfield up there some where named Steve Harper? I was told he makes a real nice saddle, he's coming down to try one of my horses and I was thinking about getting him to make me a mule saddle..

Thanks

[Dan V]

There is another benefit of the britchen, besides it's intended use of keeping your saddle from sliding forward. I like to start colts with one on. It seems to keep them from beeing so goosy and grab assy. It helps to keep from getting rim fired every time a rope touches the young horses ass.

[R Severe]

Really good thread here, always enjoy hearing what works in different parts of the country. I have a letter around the shop somewhere in answer to a question I asked Warner Glenn about his preferance and why. To long ago for me to quote it but he liked the britchin.

I've just used a kruper on my mule. A few times I could have used a britchin but got by ok with no sore's. I credit a oldtime mule guy with never getting a sore going on my mule. He rigged his saddle with a dee on the back of each bar, about 8 to 10" apart. A strap riveted to each dee crossed on the mules rump, going thru a large brass ring. Then buckling to the kruper. He said the saddle will cause a kruper to move back & forth under the mules tail when conected to a center ring or dee on the tree. Two straps crossed thru a ring on the rump takes the sawing action out of the kruper, the straps move in the ring at the cross instead. I have flat snaps on my kruper to take it off when I'm on the flat ground.

So far it's worked for me, but thats just my riding in this country. May not work in your country.

[Mike Leonard]

Von,


Yes I know Steve Harper a little use to go to his shop when he had one. He made a couple of real nice headstalls for me. I saw some of the saddles he made and they looked pretty good. He had another young man come in and danged if I can remember his name and he was a real talent with leather but he pulled out about 10 years ago. I haven't heard of Steve doing any leather work in a long time.

I bet he still has all his tool so he might be willing to do a little trading.


I am going to see if I can by me a pair of $4000. dollar mules for about $300. a piece and maybe if I am real slick I can trade them to R. Severe for the saddle of my dreams.

Wish me luck. LOL!

[Cowboyvon]

Mike,

He still makes saddles but its not his main business.. he got into some kind of gasket making business or something.. any way we made the deal this last Saturday..

He learned from Cliff Yarbourgh years ago, the saddle I compete on now is a Yarbourgh that I traded for..I sure like it for roping.. but I have to figure out what I want now. I have plenty of roping saddles I need one that will work for my mules and riding that rough country around my camp..if anyone has any suggestions I would appreciate it..

Another thing Mike do you know Charles Evenson.. he's a old man that trades horses there in Aztec?

[Mike Leonard]

Boy a suggestion on a saddle for the hills is about like asking what kind of pickup do you like, cuz everybody likes something a little different.

Personally I like a little swell on my hill saddles becase I find myself ducking and dodging limbs and hanging off out on the side and that little purchase your thigh has on that swell makes it easier, as does a good pair of oiled leggins. A little cantle isn't a bad idea as well. No real need for a Cheyenne roll and you can roll up your carhart jacket and tie it over your slicker easier if you have an upright cantle rather than a low roll. You can do it with a roll but it looks awkward sticking up there.I would go as light as you could and still have the good stuff in it. R.Severe can offer plenty of advice a lot better than mine. But give me a modified Assn. Leallen or Will James for this riding. Thinking on plenty of mules consider 3/4 double flat plate or get real radical and go 5/8 single rig and working matrigale.



Charles Severson: Yes I know him he had a couple of stall next to mine at a horse show a few year ago and we talked. He had some pretty good blooded horses it seems mostly cutting stock as I recall. But I don't know much else.

[R Severe]

Just got caught up on this thread. Gonna have to watch Mike or I'll be mule poor

Von, I agree with Mike on saddles for the hills. Lots of personal prefferance's.
For the horse or mule I'd pick a tree with the shorter bar for the hills. The ones Mike named all fit this. One I'd also include is the old wade bar. It's a short broad bar that feels real narrow due to the way the fork is made. Don't mistake the newer wades alot of treemakers are making, they are as long as most roper bars.

Most mules around this country are pretty easy to fit. I will slightly narrow the gullet in a fork and then use the semi Quarter Horse angles. I use the same saddle on both horses & mules and just add a single sweat pad to my normal 8 kilo woolpad for my mule.