Stirrup question

[Spencer]

I have learned a lot and enjoyed reading all the posts in this category. Have a couple questions for you been there done that types.
1. What do you mean by getting leaky?
2. What is the purpose/advantages/disadvantages of oxbow stirrups
3. If your horses are shod(I assume they are) do you worry about sucking a shoe off in the mud, and do you carry something (EZ boot, tools and shoe) to get you home?
4. I have read a lot about the britchen and cruppers but do you use breastcollars as well and do you worry about sticks and whatnot getting caught up between the horse and collar causing a wreck?
5. I assume you usually tie your horse when going out on foot, but do you ever hobble them? or are you worried they will go too far from where you left them when hobbled.
6. If you decide it is not worth it to hunt any longer during that day, how do you get the dogs back to the truck? Do they just follow along or do you leash them and lead them on a leash from horseback? If they follow along, what if they cut a scent while headed back to the truck, can you call them off the scent or is the hunt on and there is nothing you can do about it?

Thanks for all the info posted under this topic, I have gotten quite an education reading on how you use your horses when hunting. I have horses and do a bit of trail riding, but it is quite a bit different trail riding and hunting. I am hoping to get started hunting but I am trying to learn as much as possible before I bite the bullet and head out.

[Mike Leonard]

Some good questions I will give you my take on them and others can add their thoughts.

1. Leaky? Not too sure on this one but when you saddle leaks it usually means you are going to be the one leaked on the ground. LOL!

2.Oxbow stirrups are just that a narrow bowed stirrup that is easier to keep your foot in during fast action on horseback. lets say your horse blows up and bucks well with heavy stirrups that are built to get out of quick like roping stirrups and such you could blow a stirrup or both pretty quick and that usually means you are going to leak onto the ground. LOL! Cutters use these stirrups for the same reason with fast stops and turns it helps keep your foot in them. I should note however in reality these true oxebows should be ridden with riding boots with the shank portion ahead of the riding heel properly designed for oxebow stirrups. Most people don't use these type boots and the true adnantages of the oxebow are pretty much eliminated by a flat bottomed boots like ropers and such. Oxebows are meant to be rode with you foot socked all the way in to the heel. I use to keep oxebows on my bronc saddle and my colt starting rig but other than that I detest them. They are very uncomfortable to me because I ride rough country and I want to be on the balls of my feet if a wreck happens. I do have some custom flat bottomed oxebows that look good and are fairly comfortable but they are not really oxebows.For a person who rides big country a good wide flat bottom Visalia is hard to beat. You do a lot of long trotting in big country and this gives you a posting platform.
3.A well shod horse shouldn't have his shoes sucked off by mud but if he does and it is that muddy it won't hurt to ride him with a flat tire on that soft ground. Some carry an easy boot. I just keep a few tools at the trailer as well as some used shoes and I can if need be just slap another one on.
4. A breast strap is a good idea in rough country and if you are riding a jass ack you better have a crupper or a breechin of some kind. Be careful with them big old tripping and steer roping breast collars. They can cut the wind off a horse if tight in really steep country. I use a plain strap or a martingale and adjust it so it doesn't pull and gall in the front or pull the cinch to far forward into the leg pits of the animals.A good fitting saddle properly rigged and adjusted with not too much padding should set a horse with a decent back even in the rough stuff fine.
5.Forget the hobbles unless you can watch the horse. It's ok to let them graze but they can get away or they can get hung up and hurt.Tie the horse high, short and solid! You are going to be very pissed if you go back for him after climbing out of a canyon and your guts and lungs on fire and he is adios to the camp without you. LOL!

6. Horseback hound hunters don't lead dogs. You teach them to come on dogs when you want to go and they fall in with you. If they hit a track and you don't want to run it you tell them leave it alone were are done hunting.Tri-Tronic helps translate these human words to a language canines seem to understand.LOL! I use a whistle as well so I don't have to scream profanties at them and further wear my frayed nerves out.


Hope this helps some.....

[Waterway]

A horse that will ground tie is a wonderful thing to. Nothing better after the shooting stops or what ever and see your horse standing quietly or maybe grazing...lol

Mel

[Mike Leonard]

I agree Mel, and I sure know where Nisland is.

But when you have rode in 15 miles and then hiked off for 5 hours and sweated back out of there to ride back in the dark and the wind and the snow you may be sorely disappointed that your ground tied ride decided you had abondoned ship and he left for the home ranch. Those will be the worst 15 miles of your life. Just tie him up and not with the bridle reins.


I had a guy up on the continetal divide one time on a hunt. He had a big bay horse that was sure enough a nice animal. We had a bit of lunch and just decided to walk down and set up the spotting scope over a big basin and watch for some high country deer. Well he said old Obie One Canobie was dead broke ground tied. I said ok but I tied Nicky and Candy up solid to a ponderosa and sprayed them with a little fly spray before I left. Well Old big bay must have got lonely or fly bit becasue when we got back I had my saddle mare and my pack horse and he had horse tracks off the mountain.Well I let him ride down but a pack saddle and such a good ride for a round ass. LOL! Yep old big bay was there ready to go home at the trail head and his saddle was a wreck hanging sideways.l Tie em up.

[Spencer]

Mike

Thanks for the info it is appreciated.

Just a few comments on your comments.
Some good questions I will give you my take on them and others can add their thoughts.

1. Leaky? Not too sure on this one but when you saddle leaks it usually means you are going to be the one leaked on the ground. LOL! OK I get it now!

2.Oxbow stirrups. I should note however in reality these true oxebows should be ridden with riding boots with the shank portion ahead of the riding heel properly designed for oxebow stirrups. What is the different between regular boots and those designed for oxbows?

They are very uncomfortable to me That is the impression I got from looking at them. .

For a person who rides big country a good wide flat bottom Visalia is hard to beat. You do a lot of long trotting in big country and this gives you a posting platform. I agree. I have the deep roper style. big tread=more comfort for long rides.3.

4. A breast strap is a good idea in rough country and if you are riding a jass ack you better have a crupper or a breechin of some kind. Be careful with them big old tripping and steer roping breast collars. They can cut the wind off a horse if tight in really steep country. I use a plain strap or a martingale and adjust it so it doesn't pull and gall in the front or pull the cinch to far forward into the leg pits of the animals

.A good fitting saddle properly rigged and adjusted with not too much padding should set a horse with a decent back even in the rough stuff fine. My latest ride is not a mutton withered horse, but we had a lot of trouble saddle fitting with her. not much of a wither. using a saddle with QH bars, arizona style. I am hoping she will fill out more as she is three right now.


6. Horseback hound hunters don't lead dogs. You teach them to come on dogs when you want to go and they fall in with you. If they hit a track and you don't want to run it you tell them leave it alone were are done hunting. I guess my thinking was you never wanted to use the tri tronics when they are starting a track of the game you have trained them to pursue. Not an issue???
Hope this helps some.....Sure does and thanks!!!

[Shorty]

Spencer,

As for the oxbow stirrups they are a little more dangerous. You can't get your foot out of them as fast as you can a roping stirrup. That though is exactly what they are designed for. They are great for riding horses that are known to buck or colts. Oxbows are all I ride mainley for that reason. I don't like hitting the ground and it's hard to ride a bucker without stirrups. If I'm in a bad spot in the raod I just run the stirrup out on the ball of my feet till the road gets better. I'm not the sharpest tool in the shed but this works for me. However I'd never recommend these style stirrups for someone who doesn't absolutly know what they are doing.

The second reason is they don't hurt my knees like roping stirrups do. Have you ever seen those stirrups they have out now that the bottom is at an angle? Well they were origionaly designed for people with bad knees to relieve some pain and take the bind out of your knees. Now alot of ropers are using and endorsing them so thats their new ad campain. If you look at the wear marks on my oxbows you'd see thay my feet sit in them at an angle as well. What I mean by this (incase your lost) is that the outside of my feet are closer to the ground than the inside of my feet. Or you could say the bottom of my feet point in toward the horse. I never noticed this till riding roping stirrups all day and my knees hurt like hell at the end of the day. I went to investigating and noticed the wear marks on my oxbows. Shortly after they came out with those new stirrups. Thought that sort of irronic.

For the boots you need something with a good strong SHANK in them. Most of you roping boots don't have good shanks. The second thing is that right in front of the heel the sole should be rounded. If not rounded they will pinch the outsides of your feet. Most boots with an underslung heel will also have this. You'll find that these underslung heels however are not the greatest hiking boots (which you'll have to do some hiking while hunting horsback). Handmade custume boots are the best ride in these type stirrups no doubt. I however have found that Ariate's work just as well. I just get the roping heel and rubber sole. They have good shanks in them, plenty or traction, and are pretty confortable.

I hope this helps you out some. Feel free to ask more questions as the only STUPID question is the one you didn't ask. I'll let someone else chime in about calling your dogs off a good track. If they don't I'll try helping you with that too. I type too slow to do it now however. Take care.

[Dan V]

The thing i dont like about oxbow stirrups for every day riding, is how the cross bolt on the top wears against the front of your ankle/bottom of your shin when you have the stirrup against the front of your heel.

With stirrups that are say 2.5 to 3 inches wide, that does not seem to be a problem. When you have your foot burried in the stirrup, that cross bolt is not ridding right on your lower shin/upper ankle.

I know people who tell me you just have to get used to it, and I have seen the calluses on thier leg where they got used to it. After one long day in the saddle with owbows i decided i did not want to get used to it. I rode a friend's saddle last night with oxbows and it reminded me again.

I have been riding with a 2.5 inch visalia stirrup inside tapaderos for years. Its easy to get out of, and if your not ready to start reaching when a horse blows up, they are easy stirrups to loose. However, the weight of the taps keeps them down and i find it easier to get your stirrup back after you loose it with taps. But, as with a lot of things, its what you get used to.

[Waterway]

Mike I have read your posts about growing up in Montana and was never quite sure what part, always wondered if it was the pouder river country? I agree fully on tying a horse properly but still when a person drops the reins say to take a shot its still great to know you got a horse still waiting for you.
Dan as I watch so many people ride in every kind of footware imaginable, I can only wonder why more people are not drug to death than there are. If a person isn't riding with a good boot stirrup combination a tap is a real asset.

[horshur]

I offered my horses to a good friend for a northern BC elk hunt.....just sent them with my tack......oxbow stirrups.
He thank me for the good broke horses that apparently saved his life a time or two but had one complaint......wool pacs don't fit in oxbow stirrups.LOL guess it was a long painful ride on his toes. Stupid deal was I had spares for winter pacs just never thought.

[Eric Muff]

You guys that groung tie will be walking one day,be sure of that.I've seen it a time or two and believe me it never happens at the best time,tie em.
Big flat stirrups are definately the way to goe out here in the mountains were a wreck or unexpected dismount is waiting around the bend.Don't get me wrong I do not have the kind of horses that are prone to wrecks but stuff happens and does,no need to be unprepared.
A good fitting saddle and a good rider take away the need for crupers and the like out here,put a rookie onboard and you might need to change your strategy.
Keep some shoeing supplies at the trailer and refit em if you lose a shoe close to the truck,if your in the back country take some spares along,most of the time all you need to do is nail em on as the foot should be in good shape already if your shoeing program is what it should be.
No problem calling those hounds off a track on the way out if you've done your schooling at home and got an education on em.

[larry]

I like a 2" visalia, same basic thing as an oxbow, but flat on the bottom. If the front of your shin or ankle is getting rubbed by the stirrup bolt your boots are junk. A good all day pair or stock saddle boots should have the heel set a little farther forward to keep this rubbing issue from happening. NOT a fan of rubber soles. If you are unfortunate enoughto leak out of your saddle and are worried that a narrow stirrup will keep your foot and drag you to your death, simply roll over onto your stomach to get your foot to pop loose. Take the leather rap around the bottom of your pedal and throw it away and rewrap with 1/4" nylon cord, not near as slippery as leather when its raining all day, thats an all but forgotten old timer trick.

[Dan V]

Larry, the boots probably are the problem for me with the oxbows. I usually just buy roper style boots off the shelf. I never could get leather soles to last very long, espeacially working in malapai type rocks. I have never seen anything go through leather soles like that lava rock.

I had a pair of leather soled boots I had just got resoled one spring. In 3 weeks of walking around camp, shoeing horses and flanking calves, i was barefoot and had to switch to rubber soled cowboy boots. They would have been fine if I took them off as soon as I got off my horse, but that did not happen.

I dont like having to get myself reshod that often espeacially since I dont know how to re-sole boots. I'm wearing this one pair of Ariat boots now for the last 2 years, it looks like the leather on the foot is going to wear out before the rubber on the sole does. They are great in a flat bottom stirrup, but miserable in an oxbow.

[Cold Track]

Oxbows are great for riding colts or other horses that might buck, and fine for riding in the low country or working cows. If your making ten plus mile circles in the mountains, IMO a 3 or 4 inch bell is the ticket.

[Spencer]

Thanks for all of the info. Shorty, I understand what you mean about the outside of your foot being lower than the inside. I have also seen the stirrups you are talking about that are slanted. It takes some of the fatigue out of your feet and knees by not having only one contact point on your foot. I have rawhide wrapped deep roper stirrups and also wood with the metal exterior stirrups with taps on them for winter riding. It sounds like I am going to stick with them. I was thinking that maybe my work boots (loggers) with a big heel might be a good boot to use for both riding and hiking after the hounds, but I worried the agressive tread and bulkier boot may get hung up in the stirrup if something goes wrong. I don't like cowboy boots for hiking, they don't snug down enough or have a thick enough sole for the terrain. You mentioned custom boots, what kind are you recommending? Packers? Where would I be able to price them out?

As far as the hounds. It was mentioned that they kind of hunt along with you as you go, Are they bred or trained not to go deep but hunt close? Or will they make a circle and check back as you ride along? What are you doing to train them to walk with you back to the truck unleashed?

Thanks for the info.

[Big Mike]

Far as Boots Whites, Nick's, hawthornes packers are all good for riding and walking. All have web sites.

I ride over shoe stirrups which work well for hunting and big boots. Bad thing about them is they are slippery when wet and arnt good if you got a bronc to deal with.

As far as the handle of the dogs, its all trained. You have to put the time in(and alot of it) to get your dogs to handle and come when they are called. The beeper mode on tri tronics works wonders for this since hounds cant hear a dam thing when there hunting. My dogs are raised around my mules and I start taking them for short rides when they get about 6 months and start putting the handle on them. First thing my hounds learn to trail is my mules. When they get to chasn rabbits and such i just ride off from them. When they figure out they are alone they will come huntn you and learn to trail the mules. I never have to leave a hound out overnight because they will all trail back to where i parked. Some of my older dogs will even open while they are trailing me and my mule