foxhound pup running deer

[spech]

am working with well bred fox hound 12 month old pup. has run in pen about two week,starting her on the outside with another pup. They go out and hunt, go eveywhere a coyote would be found but are coming up short on coyote but can run a deer as good as you would want, she has a nose to burn , speed, intelligence, happy as heck with her ability. I have alot of experience with bluetick coonhound, really never had a deer problem, so what is the best way to break this fine young hound without ruining her. I have a shock collar, is that my answer? I have seen her run a wild coyote, but she like the deer better. Can you help me with different methods or approaches. Must tell you our coyote are low in numbers but coming back.

[Jkohnke]

It's pretty natural thing for them to run deer. Here in ms we use them as deer dogs. But we also coyote and fox hunt them too. You just about need a strait dog to strike a coyote for you and turn your pups to him when he gets it going. Gonna need some shock collars to break the young dogs off deer. I don't know the breeding on your pups but some strains in the running hounds are a little more coyote /fox minded than others. The hale bred dogs some of the liquor dogs and the crogans. A broke dog to hunt with them will cost you but is worth it. Most running dogs will run anything that runs from them and leaves a scent. Good luck breaking them.

[spech]

Thanks for the reply, think I will give up, and take your advice. Ihave buddy that purchased two broke hounds from a fella in Kirksville, otherwise will just wait till snow and turn loose on on fresh coyote tracks, if take deer after being on track will use the shocker. Am putting her in a pen this week one last time before summer. Also this spring before planting , could I put her on deer and shock her, day after day. thanks Jerry.

[Jkohnke]

I would run her with the broke dog and when she splits and starts a deer burn her down. I'm not a big fan of setting them up and turning on a deer and shocking them.

[mondomuttruner]

I'm not a fan of a setup either but if you do, make sure you can get her on preferred game as soon as possible. I wouldn't do it out of the season your running game in. I've found if you can get them on enough of good game, they loose interest in bad game. Those that don't, not worth the trouble..

[david]

Spech, My whole hunting life changed from one of frustration and trouble to an enjoyable and productive venture when I figured out how to make my dogs come to me when I called them. Your dog is a foxhound, and most lines are pretty tough. you are not going to ruin the dog with forced obedience. If you will teach your dog that when you make a certain call SHE ABSOLUTELY MUST COME TO YOU IMMEDIATELY NO MATTER WHAT SHE IS DOING your deer problem will be as good as licked . A hunters horn is really the best call, but i could never keep track of mine, so I used my voice like a high horn.

You can be hard on your dog with teaching her she must come. You MUST be hard on her for this. This is for her safety and happiness as a hunting dog. She will not associate the hard lessons with game. Having a pen to run in will make this so simple for you. Teach her to come when you call her. Then teach her to come when you call her and she is running in the pen wide open. She gets the same hard lesson she always got if she does not come immediately. She will know she is being punished for not coming to you. This will absolutely NOT break her from running coyote or whatever she is doing that you want her to do. It will teach her she must come no matter what she is doing.

Make your body and 3 feet surrounding it her safety zone. Never correct her within that zone. If you must correct her and she is close to you, snap a lead on her, put it around a pole or small tree, pull her away from you, and use something that will reach that far weather electricity or whatever, or even the leash itself. then, let her come into the safety zone, and pet her up and tell her how good she is. She will crave that safety zone when ever there is trouble.

She will need to learn that you hate the smell of deer. On the hind leg of a deer, inside just above the foot is a gland. It can be several inches long (depending on the deer) and looks like a scar healed over when you pull back the hair. this is the Tarsal gland and it is the dominant smell the dogs are running. Cut them off road kill or harvested deer, and teach your dog this smell is very very bad. I like to do this when they are little puppies all the way until they go hunting. John Wick hangs it from a hot wire with wire loops around it, the puppies touch it with their nose and they learn quick. You might see the toughest one do it a couple times, even three, never four.

Now she knows that she must come when you call her, and NEVER let her get away with not coming. If you are not willing to run her down or have remote control of her, do not give the special call that means "come right now, no other option." have some other call that means, "come when you feel like it because I am ready to go when you are". Never use the mandatory command unless you can enforce it and NEVER let her get away with not coming.

Now she also knows that the smell of deer is a bad thing. She will still try running them and especially if she sees one, and especially since she has already tasted it. When she does, call her. If you have done the training, she will quit the deer and come. If you are unsure what she is running, call her. If she does not come, she gets shocked. She will know she is getting shocked for not coming. Will not matter if she is running good game. And when she is in the safety zone, she is nothing but a good girl. If you feel you need to discipline her, pull her away from your body, administer discipline, even if it is only verbal scolding. Then let her back into the safety zone where she is a good girl forever. Take time to pet her a ton, and go for a walk with her close to your leg, stopping to pet her occasionally.

then at the next opportunity, get her to the pen where you know she is running good game and let her have fun. Call her when you are ready to go. And you are buddies forever. She will trust you completely because you are completely predictable and reliable and consistent. She always gets the same treatment for the same behaviors so she knows exactly what to expect and becomes extremely confident in all she does.

She sounds like a real nice dog. She will be worth the effort.

[david]

[david]

Also spech if you would make the same post under fox hunting or cat hunting or big game hunting more people would probably see it and give you other ideas

[slowandeasy]

Spech,

Everyone has givin ya good advice here. But If she'd quit them deer on her own ya wouldn't want her. She aint no tree hound she has a little bottom to her. And fer sure she aint no BLUETICK There that ought ta get chit rollin



Take care, Willie

[slowandeasy]

And David you quit being so politically correct.


Take care, Willie

[al baldwin]

[spech]

thanks to everyone for the interest and suggestion.Took her to a pen for a pup hunt today, was please , got to score her twice first on track,seems to enjoy the run. Weather report in Nebraska is for snow tomorrow(Monday), if it comes will be checking mile roads for track, then will give her a whirl!!! Will be working with you fellas methods, THANKS!!!!!

[mark]

Just out of curiosity, how many of you guys running coyotes are using the blue dogs successfully?

[slowandeasy]

May I please be excused for one moment??? I need to put my rain gear on in preparation for the chit storm!! OH!! Just for the record, if I was a betting man. I think if one was to find one of these specimens. The only thing it would have in common with a registered Blue dog would be color. As I am positive there would be a WALKER in the wood pile quite frequently.



Take care, Willie

[david]

Dang you guys are brutal. You hurt my feelings. I might have to switch over to walkers now, or at least spend some time with my emotional therapist. Ouch. Or maybe just kick your butt. Don't think I can't do it