To Much Drive

Talk about Big Game Hunting with Dogs
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Walkerdirt
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To Much Drive

Postby Walkerdirt » Fri Nov 20, 2020 2:21 am

I had a bob treed in the night this summer. Dogs were looking at the cat from the top of a bluff and were actually treeing from above it. It looked like the cat jumped from the bluff into the tree. Long story short the cat jumped tree and one of my dogs jumped off the bluff after it. My stomach dropped when I heard him hit. The rest figured a way around. He lived but was banged up for a couple weeks.

I was listening to Floyd Green on a podcast and he said you loose the good ones to the bluffs because they go off them after game.

My question is, would anyone ever say a line of dogs has to much drive because they have no regard for keeping themselves alive? Or it just a double edged sword. Drive in a hound catches game but it also gets dogs killed. I’m not talking gritt but drive.
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Re: To Much Drive

Postby Beebout-it » Fri Nov 20, 2020 11:47 am

I've got a female plott that is 50ft up the tree when u get there, cat bails she falls out and away she goes. Next thing cat will bay and bail off a cliff and ol tink just flies right off hits the ground and I'm thinking no way she lives. She'll jump up shake her head and let out a long bawl and off she goes. I'm not sure she has more drive then my other dogs, I think its a bit less brains in my opinion.
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Re: To Much Drive

Postby Rossco » Sat Nov 21, 2020 3:50 am

I would personally prefer a dog with too much drive every time. I kinda look at it the same as a young pup that wants to trail everything under the sun. I would prefer to have to try and tame down something in a dog than encourage and try to build it up
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Re: To Much Drive

Postby pegleg » Sat Nov 21, 2020 5:33 am

Well that falls into the same class as not respecting heat or any other danger. It's intelligence or lack of in my opinion just as much as drive. Bluffs cliffs ledges trees etc. If a dog doesn't have the sense to navigate them safely in the presence of game they won't live very long. Granted dogs are capable of a lot of things but that's up to them to decide if something's reasonably safe for them. One advantage to getting young dogs out often is they learn these limits . I don't encourage or allow younger dogs in situations I know will be real dangerous and likely combine game animals. I have dogs that will trail until they are leaving blood trails themselves from lips nose and feet and they will keep pushing longer then I would personally but eventual they will lay up in some cases.
I have had dogs that would quit eating if hunted too long day after day and those that climb or dive off after game. But if that dog makes it a habit I'm not likely to ever breed it and it's not likely to live a long life.
So if the dogs drive and intelligence ratio is such then yes I'd say they can have too much. Just remember there's dogs that will do about anything to see their prey and go through about any situation but never get injured. and really for cat dogs they see some dangerous country regularly so the risk is there.
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Re: To Much Drive

Postby macedonia mule man » Sat Nov 21, 2020 2:27 pm

It’s like people who do things without thinking and get hurt or killed. Smart people do dumb things every hours of the day and it ends bad sometimes and it ends good sometimes but too much not thinking will get you injured or killed. To much drive in any animal will cause them trouble of some kind. I lot rather have to too much drive in my dogs than not enough, regardless of the problems.
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Re: To Much Drive

Postby Rossco » Sat Nov 21, 2020 4:57 pm

I would definitely agree with pellet about intelligence. Intelligence in a dog is one of the biggest factors that makes them good and keeps them alive
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Re: To Much Drive

Postby SASS » Sun Nov 22, 2020 2:45 am

IMO drive and intelligence are two separate things. Super intelligent dogs can still kill themselves because they have too much drive. Sometimes the drive is so high it overrules their brain. Just like Muleman said, super smart people do dumb things all the time. There are very intelligent dogs that will run themselves to death if allowed to. Is a dead game bulldog dumb because he won't quit?

I think it's more like a balance. In a perfect world you would always have the right balance of both but this isn't a perfect world. You would want enough drive to get the job done even when their up against it, but not so much that it is constantly overriding their brain. Also sometimes they will learn from things like that and other similar exposure and sometimes they won't.

With all that being said I would still rather have a dog with a ton of drive then one lacking it, you can take it out but you can't really put it in. Thats my two cents.
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Re: To Much Drive

Postby Walkerdirt » Thu Nov 26, 2020 5:56 pm

I guess drive doesn’t mean much unless you have the intelligence to go with it. This particular dog needs an extra lock on his kennel and shows signs of decent intelligence.
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Re: To Much Drive

Postby Rossco » Fri Nov 27, 2020 12:27 am

Reguardless of it all, it comes down to how much you like the dog. Personally, it kinda puts a smile on my face when dogs like that are awake and greet me in the morning after 5 or 6 days of hunting. That drive will keep them wanting to hunt hard when the rest just want to lay up and sleep
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Re: To Much Drive

Postby scrubrunner » Mon Nov 30, 2020 7:25 pm

No such thing as to much drive, ones with extreme drive may not live as long but are a lot more fun to hunt with. Drive is the desire to hunt and catch its pray. But I've also seen dogs that were eat up with drive for a couple of hours but they start getting tired or can't hold the front end any longer suddenly they don't want it near as bad as they thought they did. That dog has some drive but no heart. Heart is the trait that causes one to keep going despite hardship. Heart causes one to never quit despite falling behind, bloody feet etc. a dog with heart will be limping on 3 legs, sore, tired, you may have to drag it out of the pen to load but once you get to the woods and unbox it, it loosens up a little and goes off hunting with tail over its back hitting on all 4 cylinders.
Drive or heart either one could cause a dog to jump off a cliff after game.
Intelligence is important too, but it's nothing without drive, heart and ability. It takes a large combination of traits to make even a mediocre hunting dog much less a really good one.
Really good ones usually don't live as long as ones just good enough to keep.
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Re: To Much Drive

Postby 1whitedog » Sun Dec 06, 2020 4:12 pm

Well said scrub runner. The number 1 thing i look for in my puppies at a young age is the desire to catch what is front of them regardless of what is going on around them. I can think of instances where to much desire or heart can get dogs and people for that matter in trouble but ill take those individuals in a trench with me any time, brains is a huge plus.
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Re: To Much Drive

Postby Walkerdirt » Mon Dec 07, 2020 3:06 am

Well said all. If you had to put a number to it how long of a race through rough country would you set the bar for a dog with a high level of drive and heart? I’m talking miles from a well conditioned dog. I had a tough one the other day and had one pup quit at 9 miles and start back tracking and the other two laid up at around 15. It was a typical southern Arizona winter day 40-75 degrees with cold trailing followed by a jumped race followed by more cold trailing through Boulder fields and running back on its own track.
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Re: To Much Drive

Postby macedonia mule man » Mon Dec 07, 2020 9:58 am

I really want my dogs to try until they give out, I can usually tell after a while if they are going to be able to stay up close enough to what ever they are running to make it an enjoyable race. Usually it an old coyote that knows how to widen the distance on a pack of dogs. Those races down here can go on all night and not have a good race. I catch up and find something new when I see it going to be one of those kind.
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Re: To Much Drive

Postby pegleg » Mon Dec 07, 2020 4:31 pm

How far were you from the dogs when the young dog turned around and the others lay down? How fast was the track being moved? We are very dry and dusty this year and even fresher tracks have been blowing out the last few days with the winds here. In Arizona I try and keep right on top of the dogs. The older dogs will trail for a couple days if they aren't pulled off at sunset. I don't know if they trail all night or only portions of it. When I'm with them on those kinds of track i do stop not having much interest in stumbling around in the dark. And on the occasions the dogs have been out they are usually not difficult to find not being in the same spot but not many miles away. I do believe they take a break or two on their own. But not certain of it. They do sleep on the second night after the third day though and that seems to be where many have their threshold and will truly quit a track. But I've only seen that a few times. Lions just don't generally travel fast with the exception of crossing the desert floor here those tracks can out run your ability to trail them. But most of those areas are built up with housing and fences etc. Anymore and I haven t followed one in several years. A full day of trailing shouldn't be beyond a healthy adult hound unless some other condition is at play.
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Re: To Much Drive

Postby Walkerdirt » Tue Dec 08, 2020 7:20 pm

I was about 800 yards from the pup and maybe a half mile from the other two. This was a strange ending to a race as I'm confident my dogs are running to catch. So I'm not saying they were at their threshold but for reasons unknown the race ended at that mileage. A full day of trailing could be any number of miles.

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