Where there is a will there is a way

[david]

I saw the Mythbusters thread and it is a good one.

Some of us are having to either find cheaper ways to hunt, or quit hunting altogether. I have quit altogether, yet everyday think about it and wonder if there is a way. Maybe we could go even beyond the mythbusters thread which is about getting better fuel milage, to cutting costs in other ways.

I will list a few things I have done through the years. Many of these things will not be for those who hound hunt because of being in a hound hunting culture. Beleive it or not, there is a style of clothing and equipment, etc, that you have to conform to if you want to fit in to that culture. These ideas are for the guys that HAVE to hunt and would do it if no one in the world knew they were doing it. They HAVE to hunt and it doesn't matter if they can do it in style and comfort.

1) Could we get a list of cars and trucks that consistently keep going with over 150,000 miles already on them. Stuff that can be purchased cheaply, yet is good on gas. A lot of great hounds have been hauled around in cars and not trucks in years gone by.

Toyota engines are notorius for going on and on. I prefer to buy american, but again, we are talking desperation here.

I bought a Geo Prism which has a toyota engine for $400.00. The car was amazingly reliable.
A set of tire chains: $50.00
you would be amazed how well a two wheel drive (especially front wheel drive) can go with a set of chains.
A pair of "come-alongs", and a long cable or chain might run you another 150.00
A couple earth anchors for when you cant get to a tree: $25.00
A good jack, well, a couple of jacks: hydrolic, and widowmaker: $75.00 at a flea market.

If you want to get real fancy, there was a pretty famous trapper in Oregon when I lived there who had a winch welded to the frame on the front of his Volkswagon. What does a winch cost? lets put a guess at
$500.00, since I dont know what it is.

So without the winch, you got 700.00 invested. With the winch, let's say
1,200.00. Getting nearly 30 mpg

Yes, tire chains are a pain. You might spend over an hour taking them on and off on a hunting trip. You might get stuck too and spend 4 hours getting yourself out. So let's say on a bad day hunting you spend 5 hours working. Work you would not have had to do if you were driving a full sized 4x4.

But lets compare the purchase price, and the price of fuel between the full sized truck and the toyota sedan. Those 5 hours of work just saved you somewhere in the neighborhood of $5,000.00 - 30,000.00.
That's $1,000.00 - $6,000.00 per hour. Pretty good wages.

And, on most days, in most locations you will not get stuck at all.
You will learn to drive differently, and do a little more walking, but you will learn how to avoid getting stuck. And you will hunt.

I have spent many many hours hunting my dogs from a bicycle. It doesnt always work, but there are many places I have hunted with a bicycle that just did not get hunted by anyone but me. Park the car or truck and ride the dogs in to areas that motors are not allowed, or could not navigate.

I have spent even more time hunting from a canoe, or boat. You can get a decent used canoe for $300.00. You will be hunting one or two dogs, and they will have to be well trained to handle, but you will be hunting.
The beauty of the bike and canoe is that you are often in ideal habitat constantly, instead of just periodically. A boat is a little more money, but again, can have you in ideal and unhunted territory. A rig dog will rig off a canoe or boat the same as they will a truck.

I have parked my car or truck, and canoed with 2 dogs, and my bike tied into the bow, hunted all night, and then rode the bike back to the truck. It is not for everyone. But it might be for someone on here.

By the way, they will rig out a car window as well. A hood rug works great on a car too.

[david]

This is kind of a different angle to the question of "how do I afford this".

For me, it has become a question of "can I find a way to do this in moderation?" ..."Can I do this without giving it the #1 financial priority in my life" ..."Can I do this without spending money I dont have or cant afford to be spending on hunting?" ..."Can I make it a hobby instead of an obsession?" Because IF I can answer yes to these questions, then maybe,... Maybe, I can hunt again.

[Cathunter10]

Hey david sounds like you are thinking of starting to hunt agin if you are I have a male pup out of your old blood lines that I will let you have.
Bill

[horshur]

David...it takes me under two minutes to chain up the fronts on my old cherokee. It is not much longer than turning in the hubs.

I have only ever had a 4wd vehicle for six years and I've been driving for twenty four....13 years in a row until just last year when I bought this old jeep. We have taken some very fine game with 2wd trucks like my old Ranger.
When in school we had a Lada(Olga) she packed her share of deer just took out the back seat to make room I think that car cost 300 bucks.

If you are handy with stick welder spend a weekend ripping off the stock bumpers and fashion some bumpers out of 4 inch channel they don't need to be pretty just give you a place to use the jackall.
A bit of loggin chain and you can also use the jack as a winch...it really works.

Back to chains...not only do they work on snow or ice but they are handy as all get out in the mud to....really cover for not so great of tires.
A few stretchy straps to keep the chains tight and your good to go.

Get a few quik links..can't have to many...will be able to lenghthen so you don't need to spin the wheel to get them latched.You need to be able to do that sometimes.
Even those cheap cable chains help some I wore out a pair that were given to me in a season but inspite there cheapness they really were effective....kept the one to chain up a front in my 2wd ranger to help on louge runs in the spring...help you steer.

Even this jeep...we put a extra leaf in each back set and stuck a set of coils out of a old ford granada in the front to give a litte more clearance didn't cost anything but our time.

Learn how to wrench some.....last fall on a deer hunt with the family my brothers jeep water pump packed it in....and so with a few tools and a scrounged bucket we fixed it in the field...a shop manual is a great investment (haynes) and will pay for itself. Tools can be scrounged up as well.

The best way to save money is to have some discretionary cash saved for the inevitable good deal that we all run across.
I bought a pair of leather boots(Viberg) used for 5 bucks at a thrift store they were lightly used. These boots retail more than 300 bucks new. I have two season on them boots now still look alot like the day I bought them to replace some old euro hikers I bought used and kept for 6 years for 25 bucks. I could go on.
I have wipcord wool pants bought used at thrift store for ten bucks...filson wool coat ten as well.
Wool sweater are pretty easy to find at sally ann or thrift stores all my sweaters are bought used...
Even our backpacks were bought used by watching the buy and sell...I have missed even better deals on packs through the years.

Anyway that is some stuff.....

[cecil j.]

I saw the Mythbusters thread and it is a good one.

Some of us are having to either find cheaper ways to hunt, or quit hunting altogether. I have quit altogether, yet everyday think about it and wonder if there is a way. Maybe we could go even beyond the mythbusters thread which is about getting better fuel milage, to cutting costs in other ways.

I will list a few things I have done through the years. Many of these things will not be for those who hound hunt because of being in a hound hunting culture. Beleive it or not, there is a style of clothing and equipment, etc, that you have to conform to if you want to fit in to that culture. These ideas are for the guys that HAVE to hunt and would do it if no one in the world knew they were doing it. They HAVE to hunt and it doesn't matter if they can do it in style and comfort.

1) Could we get a list of cars and trucks that consistently keep going with over 150,000 miles already on them. Stuff that can be purchased cheaply, yet is good on gas. A lot of great hounds have been hauled around in cars and not trucks in years gone by.

Toyota engines are notorius for going on and on. I prefer to buy american, but again, we are talking desperation here.

I bought a Geo Prism which has a toyota engine for $400.00. The car was amazingly reliable.
A set of tire chains: $50.00
you would be amazed how well a two wheel drive (especially front wheel drive) can go with a set of chains.
A pair of "come-alongs", and a long cable or chain might run you another 150.00
A couple earth anchors for when you cant get to a tree: $25.00
A good jack, well, a couple of jacks: hydrolic, and widowmaker: $75.00 at a flea market.

If you want to get real fancy, there was a pretty famous trapper in Oregon when I lived there who had a winch welded to the frame on the front of his Volkswagon. What does a winch cost? lets put a guess at
$500.00, since I dont know what it is.

So without the winch, you got 700.00 invested. With the winch, let's say
1,200.00. Getting nearly 30 mpg

Yes, tire chains are a pain. You might spend over an hour taking them on and off on a hunting trip. You might get stuck too and spend 4 hours getting yourself out. So let's say on a bad day hunting you spend 5 hours working. Work you would not have had to do if you were driving a full sized 4x4.

But lets compare the purchase price, and the price of fuel between the full sized truck and the toyota sedan. Those 5 hours of work just saved you somewhere in the neighborhood of $5,000.00 - 30,000.00.
That's $1,000.00 - $6,000.00 per hour. Pretty good wages.

And, on most days, in most locations you will not get stuck at all.
You will learn to drive differently, and do a little more walking, but you will learn how to avoid getting stuck. And you will hunt.

I have spent many many hours hunting my dogs from a bicycle. It doesnt always work, but there are many places I have hunted with a bicycle that just did not get hunted by anyone but me. Park the car or truck and ride the dogs in to areas that motors are not allowed, or could not navigate.

I have spent even more time hunting from a canoe, or boat. You can get a decent used canoe for $300.00. You will be hunting one or two dogs, and they will have to be well trained to handle, but you will be hunting.
The beauty of the bike and canoe is that you are often in ideal habitat constantly, instead of just periodically. A boat is a little more money, but again, can have you in ideal and unhunted territory. A rig dog will rig off a canoe or boat the same as they will a truck.

I have parked my car or truck, and canoed with 2 dogs, and my bike tied into the bow, hunted all night, and then rode the bike back to the truck. It is not for everyone. But it might be for someone on here.

By the way, they will rig out a car window as well. A hood rug works great on a car too.

David I was with ya up till the bycle and then the canoe / how in the tom t hall do ya paddle up hill and get that bike back in though bush and bolders and pinecones ? Most good cat hunting spots are in the hills, let us all know that slue or riverbottems hunten spot with cat in so we can load pand try it oiut our selves/ even if it is behind locked gates !hahahaha

[david]

Wow, some great ideas. Keep them coming. I had a great pm with a lot of ideas too. I wanted to post it here, but wont take that liberty.

Cecil, you are right about the cats out west, not so much in the wide river bottoms. My canoe hunting has been fur hunting for coon. I have got a really big pile of fur that way though both in Oregon and in MN/WI. (That is why I put the post in General Forum, and not in Cat Hunting.)

Out here, there is no seperation between mountain and valley, it is all valley. The cats here love to walk the water ways, and in winter the frozen streams are their highways. A person could do it here with a streight bobcat dog, and might even get lucky enough to hit a cat with a combination dog. Problem is, here you can not have a streight bobcat dog, because there is not enough cats to get a dog started, broke and finished on bobcat. A dog needs to get hunted a lot to make a hunting dog. Bobcat hunting here for our dogs is 90% sitting in the dog box bored.

The bicycle worked well in places in Oregon though. There were some publicly owned roads with a dozer pile or locked gate in front that had some pretty good cat hunting behind them. There were wilderness trails where bikes are allowed as well. They call them "mountain bikes" for a reason. With a bike you can get in to some cats that have lived their life without ever hearing a dog. The dogs seem to get a big kick out of bike hunting too. Seems like they got a happy spring in their step when you are right there with them, and they dont have to wait for you all the time.

Often, when that road turns into a grown over logging road that has not been travelled in years, you dont have to go very far at all. That cat crossing is only a few hundred yards beyond where you have to stop your truck and turn around. It is further than most of us want to walk just to check, but on a bike it is not only easy, but kinda fun.

When I started throwing a bike in my truck, it was not to save on fuel, it was to give me a very effective hunting tool. If you are hunting out of a $200.00 car, the bike can also serve as your dingy if the main ship should sink.

Bill, it is good to hear from you. Yes, I am wondering if I can keep my job and still do a little hunting. I want to give it a try, but this time the job stays and the hunting goes if they are not compatable. I am not ever again going in debt. I will pm you.

[cecil j.]

Wow, some great ideas. Keep them coming. I had a great pm with a lot of ideas too. I wanted to post it here, but wont take that liberty.

Cecil, you are right about the cats out west, not so much in the wide river bottoms. My canoe hunting has been fur hunting for coon. I have got a pile of fur that way though.

Out here, there is no seperation between mountain and valley, it is all valley. The cats here love to walk the water ways, and in winter the frozen streams are their highways. A person could do it here with a streight bobcat dog. Problem is, here you can not have a streight bobcat dog, because there is not enough cats to get a dog started, broke and finished on bobcat. A dog needs to get hunted a lot to make a hunting dog. Bobcat hunting here for our dogs is 90% sitting in the dog box bored.

The bicycle worked well in places in Oregon though. There were some publicly owned roads with a dozer pile or locked gate in front that had some pretty good cat hunting behind them. There were wilderness trails where bikes are allowed as well. They call them "mountain bikes" for a reason. With a bike you can get in to some cats that have lived their life without ever hearing a dog. The dogs seem to get a big kick out of bike hunting too. Seems like they got a happy spring in their step when you are right there with them, and they dont have to wait for you all the time.

Often, when that road turns into a grown over logging road that has not been travelled in years, you dont have to go very far at all. That cat crossing is only a few hundred yards beyond where you have to stop your truck and turn around. It is further than most of us want to walk just to check, but on a bike it is not only easy, but kinda fun.

When I started throwing a bike in my truck, it was not to save on fuel, it was to give me a very effective hunting tool. If you are hunting out of a $200.00 car, the bike can also serve as your dingy if the main ship should sink.

Bill, it is good to hear from you. Yes, I am wondering if I can keep my job and still do a little hunting. I want to give it a try, but this time the job stays and the hunting goes if they are not compatable. I am not ever again going in debt. I will pm you.

Back in the late 50`s-early 60`s around the sacramento valley an slues and river area there was bobcat but Cokey Tripplett and Hommer Simms whiped em out with their good cat/fox dogs they kept and hunted ! It all returns with in time and reseeds and will be again in those areas. Now theres cyote,northern red fox an a few long tails an a few migatory bear who come in there for the samond runs and the fox/cyote came from fires destroying their hills homes and so did the wild pigs .

[TomJr]

I am a hobby hunter and just hunt from home but I am lucky to live in the middle of national forest, with a wilderness on one boundery. Our orchard is two miles from the nearest neighbor, even so thats getting too close for me, sure alot of people at the mouth of our canyon now

I go every morning for an hour or two as soon as its light enough to see without a flashlight. Usualy I cover 5-6 miles and have several loops to take. The terrain is very steep in most directions but that helps keep most people out of those areas, except the illegal aliens, who are trashing the wilderness. I don't think they realy make an impact on the game populations though but its anoying to see trash in every gully.

We don't find a track every morning but often enough to make it fun. Because I only hunt a few canyons I let my dogs chase anything except deer. Gives more options... don't have to kill everything they tree either. We tree grey fox, bobcat, ringtailed cats, the rare mtn lion, lots of bears, 4 types of skunks(sadly only one type trees the others get eaten on the ground ewww!) and couatimundi.

[doug]

And you don't need tracking collars if you can stay downwind of the skunkhounds.

[uncle Brisco]

ok,i hate to say it, but i got a plan, i live right up agenst the Black Hills,but no roads near me go in,but i got a rebuilt '68 Rokon,with a 90cc Chrysler 2 stroke,i have to fill er up about 3 times a season,so if i road the pups up the dry creek behind me,i'm in National Forest is about 10 minutes,so with not a lot of hikers that time of the year i figure that some lure and a few mirrors,and a little pinch of catnip, and i hope that if i do that all along this 8 mile loop i should get at least one track a week i hope,all this and i should never have too load the dog box in the truck ,unless this proves fruitless,lol, after this winter greed has kinda left the equation,now i feel i would be happy to have a track with in 10 miles of my house once a week insted of greedily lusting for more than one track,oh dang i miss two dollar a gallon gas,lol

[Nolte]

I know a guy who took off the back of a geo tracker (stick) and built a box. It's not real roomy and only has a couple seats, but he get mid to uppper 20s and still has 4wd. You can generally find them pretty cheap also.

I think a high-lift jack and tow strap could get you out of about anywhere with one of those. They are so light you might not even fall through too much stuff. I know the guys who run the ice house on Lake of the Woods use them to pull out houses when the ice isn't very thick.

[david]

Geo Tracker... hmmmm. I know the geo prism and metro come stock with a toyota engine. Is that true also of the geo tracker?

Also, what is a "high lift jack". Is that the same thing they call the handy- man jack, or widow maker?

The thing I dont like about those straps is that it takes so long to get actual pull on them with a come-along or jack because they stretch so much. Sure a lot easier and cheeper to bring along than a chain of the same length though. And they sure are nice when you got some one else their to snap you out. They can get a run at it, and the initial impact is padded by the stretch, and then the spring back is like a sling shot. I sure like em for that.

[Nolte]

david

A Geo Tracker was produced with the help of Suzuki I think. Suzuki made the same type of rig and called it a Samurai. I'm pretty sure they had a little 4 cylinder motor that was made by Suzuki.

A high lift jack is the same as a handyman jack I think. The loggers around here tend to use them a bit. I think they make them from 42" lift all the way up to 60".

A tow strap is standard equipment in my rig because I get suck a LOT. I tend to drive places I shouldn't and my vehicle shows it. They do work a lot better when someone else pulls you out though. A chain would work a lot quicker, too bad it's such a pain to haul around.

[Liz ODell]

Suzuki and Geo are the same thing, only the body styles and extras differ and only by a little. You can get 'used' engines from Asia for CHEAP. We have a Geo Metro (AKA Suzuki Swift)... 48 miles per gallon...now if we can only figure out how to get 4wd into it. Seriously we have been thinking about a Tracker/Samurai but might not have enough room for all the dogs even with a custom box. I thought they got better gas mileage than that (20mpg)? Why, oh why, does no one manufacture a 3 cylinder vehicle in the US anymore? They still make them overseas. Are we just too addicted to form and not to function? I think we need to suck it up, get over it and start asking for the 3 c's here in the states again

[horshur]

the trackers get more than 30 mpg....there is a conversion kit to stick a volkswagon diesel in one... crowding 45 mpg.

The trackers are very handy in the bush by there size they do more than they should. Definetly enough room unless your packing kids along.