Seek dogs with the hearts of American soldiers: brave but gentle heroes

[JonBailey64]

I am a fussy man. My requirements for dogs are more than "just being able to hunt". They have to please my eye, behave well, be in good health and also perform satisfactorily in the game fields. They also have make decent companions and act in a socially-acceptable fashion.

Any good (competent) foxhound of mine for trailing wounded deer must not be necessarily ornery (naughty) and bite the hands of children who pet him or her. An affectionate retriever that licks my face to death must not still balk at picking up downed doves with their bitter taste and soft easily-detached feathers that mess up his mouth. He'd better earn his dog food, bacon treats and vet expenses in the field and not be stubborn or a lazy loafer.

Yes, counting lucky stars, you might think I want a Five- or even a Six-Star Dog (or Dogs).

I can expect to pay at least $300 per star for any purebred pup from a reputable breeder who breeds serious hunting dogs that seems to offer promise to fulfil my requirements.

Hunting dogs are like American soldiers: they have to stand tall and look sharp in garrison in-ranks inspection (or on the show bench) but be down, dirty, brave, tough, fast, deadly and hard-charging on the battlefield (or in the game field). A total weapon. A complete razor. They have to do as they are told. Obedient to commands. Dogs also have to hold still and shut up when so commanded by their handlers just as a soldier has to shut up and be still at attention. If they have families (or masters) at home, they still have to be gentlemanly, sociable and amicable. Indeed, a tall order.

A dog has to look good through good breeding, good diet, good grooming, good vet care and good exercise. A soldier can look good by wearing a sharp uniform, clean shined shoes, good posture, a chest thrusted out and a belly sucked in, a clean haircut, a lean build and a clean shave. A dog has to act good through good training and firm disciplinary action.

Soldiers get this on their bottom ends firmly from drill sergeants with iron-toed boots. Perhaps, dogs get this thru e-collars on their tender necks.

[Irish Jack]

After reading your numerous post, and careful consideration I think there is only ONE clear choice , THE UBD. (ULTIMATE BOBCAT DOG) see post on this site.
And I am somewhat surprised that David did not suggest, as he has an inside track to them, remember David a friend worth defending is a friend worth promoting

PS keep us posted as to progress, "who's the soldier and who's the drill instructor (no pics please)

Jack

[david]

After reading your numerous post, and careful consideration I think there is only ONE clear choice , THE UBD. (ULTIMATE BOBCAT DOG) see post on this site.
And I am somewhat surprised that David did not suggest, as he has an inside track to them, remember David a friend worth defending is a friend worth promoting

PS keep us posted as to progress, "who's the soldier and who's the drill instructor (no pics please)

Jack

Jon, you can see here that I am being razzed just a bit for trying to be helpful to you. What you don’t see are other Freinds who are razzing me in the same way over my phone.

Let me be frank. I don’t know a lot about you, but this I know: you are obviously an outsider Jon. And the reason I am willing to take a gamble on you is that I was once an outsider too. You might be what Freinds are saying you are, or you might be another version of me thirty seven years ago (and that is not a compliment).

In the eighties there was no way for an outsider to quietly watch and learn invisibly like there is now. So I pounded my way in with dogs that could outperform many of the local dogs. They got that way by my own blood sweat and tears. They did not get that way by papers or exercise programs or standing in dog shows. They got that way by good genetics and hard, hard hunting several times a week.
Even then, there were only a very few kind hearted men that would open up to me and share knowledge about the elusive cat I was obsessed with.

You obviously are trying to study the topic, and display what you have learned from all your reading. I don’t know your motives, but you seem to be taken with the romance of hounds, as I also was. And you seem to have no family or close friends to help you learn, which was also my life.

But I am going to make a suggestion that you do not try to teach the men and women on this board. You have nothing to offer them until you get out and start hunting. If you are not able to hunt often and put in long days, Your romance with hounds should remain between you and your books or screens you are reading. If poetry is a good outlet for all the energy, write some more poetry and songs about hounds.

This website is the most comprehensive resource that I know of. More complete than many books combined. You can go to the archives and spend the next year or two or three reading all of it; and dream of hunting until you actually can do it.

I will also offer the advice of “don’t take up the sport of hunting with hounds”.
For you to succeed at it, you will have to become obsessed with it. For you to become obsessed with it, you will have to alienate the people who love you. And as the saying goes:
“The way to get to a million dollars with hounds, is to start out with two million”.
I have quit hounds because without fail, they make me poor and alone. It’s not worth it Jon. Find something that pays you back and builds equity with the people you love. If hounds were a long standing family tradition in your family, my advice would be different.

Here is a link to the dogs Irish Jack is suggesting for you. Maybe as a community we can get them papered for you as pure bred foxhounds or labs or whatever you want them to be. Pure bred for hundreds of years.
viewtopic.php?f=72&t=47727

[JonBailey64]

After reading your numerous post, and careful consideration I think there is only ONE clear choice , THE UBD. (ULTIMATE BOBCAT DOG) see post on this site.
And I am somewhat surprised that David did not suggest, as he has an inside track to them, remember David a friend worth defending is a friend worth promoting

PS keep us posted as to progress, "who's the soldier and who's the drill instructor (no pics please)

Jack

Jon, you can see here that I am being razzed just a bit for trying to be helpful to you. What you don’t see are other Freinds who are razzing me in the same way over my phone.

Let me be frank. I don’t know a lot about you, but this I know: you are obviously an outsider Jon. And the reason I am willing to take a gamble on you is that I was once an outsider too. You might be what Freinds are saying you are, or you might be another version of me thirty seven years ago (and that is not a compliment).

In the eighties there was no way for an outsider to quietly watch and learn invisibly like there is now. So I pounded my way in with dogs that could outperform many of the local dogs. They got that way by my own blood sweat and tears. They did not get that way by papers or exercise programs or standing in dog shows. They got that way by good genetics and hard, hard hunting several times a week.
Even then, there were only a very few kind hearted men that would open up to me and share knowledge about the elusive cat I was obsessed with.

You obviously are trying to study the topic, and display what you have learned from all your reading. I don’t know your motives, but you seem to be taken with the romance of hounds, as I also was. And you seem to have no family or close friends to help you learn, which was also my life.

But I am going to make a suggestion that you do not try to teach the men and women on this board. You have nothing to offer them until you get out and start hunting. If you are not able to hunt often and put in long days, Your romance with hounds should remain between you and your books or screens you are reading.

This website is the most comprehensive resource that I know of. More complete than many books combined. You can go to the archives and spend the next year or two or three reading all of it; and dream of hunting until you actually can do it.

I will also offer the advice of “don’t take up the sport of hunting with hounds”.
For you to succeed at it, you will have to become obsessed with it. For you to become obsessed with it, you will have to alienate the people who love you. And as the saying goes:
“The way to get to a million dollars with hounds, is to start out with two million”.
I have quit hounds because without fail, they make me poor and alone. It’s not worth it Jon. Find something that pays you back and builds equity with the people you love. If hounds were a long standing family tradition in your family, my advice would be different.

Here is a link to the dogs Irish Jack is suggesting for you. Maybe as a community we can get them papered for you as pure bred foxhounds or labs or whatever you want them to be. Pure bred for hundreds of years.
viewtopic.php?f=72&t=47727

I don't think hunting dogs should be something of rocket science with a steep learning curve, should it be, David?

They don't have to be perfect but just be well-rounded and satisfy their masters.

What does one really have to know or WHOM does one really have to know to have just ONE fair-to-middlin' hound as a tracking dog for wounded deer or just one good Lab for dove season and pheasant season? Is hound hunting, and hunting in general, really such a secretive fraternity like the Freemasons?

The American woods and cornfields seem like the Marine Corps, looking for a few good men (and dogs), so it seems.

PS - Would you like to know my motives, David? Motives for posting here, just looking for new fellowship, that's all. Not trying to be a bothersome troll. I'm too disabled and stuck home in a little big-city apartment with health issues now to even go hunting. Yes, all I can do for now is savory the dream and tell people what's on my mind. I can read books. I can watch videos. I can read web articles. I can visit discussion boards. We all would rather live the good life with dogs and guns in God's fresh outdoor air and American rolling green fields than just talk about it or type about it. I envy those who live the good life with man's best friend and a gun.

[david]

I don't think hunting dogs should be something of rocket science with a steep learning curve, should it be, David?

They don't have to be perfect but just be well-rounded and satisfy their masters.

What does one really have to know or WHOM does one really have to know to have just ONE fair-to-middlin' hound as a tracking dog for wounded deer or just one good Lab for dove season and pheasant season? Is hound hunting, and hunting in general, really such a secretive fraternity like the Freemasons?

The American woods and cornfields seem like the Marine Corps, looking for a few good men (and dogs), so it seems.

PS - Would you like to know my motives, David? Motives for posting here, just looking for new fellowship, that's all. Not trying to be a bothersome troll. I'm too disabled and stuck home in a little big-city apartment with health issues now to even go hunting. Yes, all I can do for now is savory the dream and tell people what's on my mind. I can read books. I can watch videos. I can read web articles. I can visit discussion boards. We all would rather live the good life with dogs and guns in God's fresh outdoor air and American rolling green fields than just talk about it or type about it. I envy those who live the good life with man's best friend and a gun.

You are welcome here, as far as I am concerned.

For me, hounds were a very steep learning curve. But I did not have the internet or remote electronics. My tracking collar was a leather collar with a brass name plate and a bell. My remote trainer was two screws in a collar attached to an extension cord attached to a cattle prod.

Knowing what I know about the best of hounds, I just think you would be happier with your lab. The way to torture a well bred hunting hound is to not hunt it. It really seems like cruelty to me to have a hound that can not hunt regularly. How many deer blood trails is he going to have the opportunity to trail? One a year? Five a year? And none on the year when people make good shots. Your lab can blood trail for you.

But the only way for you to know the personality and temperament of a well bred hunting hound is for you to have one. If it’s breeding is popular in your area, you should be able to find a hunter who will take it off your hands after it has destroyed your home and yard and you and your neighbors have been driven crazy by it.

I wish you the best, and I hope you get to enjoy as much hunting as your situation could possibly allow. If I lived where you do, I would take you a few miles south and show you a bobcat in a tree after some good hound music.

[JonBailey64]

I don't think hunting dogs should be something of rocket science with a steep learning curve, should it be, David?

They don't have to be perfect but just be well-rounded and satisfy their masters.

What does one really have to know or WHOM does one really have to know to have just ONE fair-to-middlin' hound as a tracking dog for wounded deer or just one good Lab for dove season and pheasant season? Is hound hunting, and hunting in general, really such a secretive fraternity like the Freemasons?

The American woods and cornfields seem like the Marine Corps, looking for a few good men (and dogs), so it seems.

PS - Would you like to know my motives, David? Motives for posting here, just looking for new fellowship, that's all. Not trying to be a bothersome troll. I'm too disabled and stuck home in a little big-city apartment with health issues now to even go hunting. Yes, all I can do for now is savory the dream and tell people what's on my mind. I can read books. I can watch videos. I can read web articles. I can visit discussion boards. We all would rather live the good life with dogs and guns in God's fresh outdoor air and American rolling green fields than just talk about it or type about it. I envy those who live the good life with man's best friend and a gun.

You are welcome here, as far as I am concerned.

For me, hounds were a very steep learning curve. But I did not have the internet or remote electronics. My tracking collar was a leather collar with a brass name plate and a bell. My remote trainer was two screws in a collar attached to an extension cord attached to a cattle prod.

Knowing what I know about the best of hounds, I just think you would be happier with your lab. The way to torture a well bred hunting hound is to not hunt it. It really seems like cruelty to me to have a hound that can not hunt regularly. How many deer blood trails is he going to have the opportunity to trail? One a year? Five a year? And none on the year when people make good shots. Your lab can blood trail for you.

But the only way for you to know the personality and temperament of a well bred hunting hound is for you to have one. If it’s breeding is popular in your area, you should be able to find a hunter who will take it off your hands after it has destroyed your home and yard and you and your neighbors have been driven crazy by it.

I wish you the best, and I hope you get to enjoy as much hunting as your situation could possibly allow. If I lived where you do, I would take you a few miles south and show you a bobcat in a tree after some good hound music.

David, its sounds like swell advice. My primary interest is shooting birds anyway. It's true a good Lab for doves could double as a wounded-deer tracker plus get all that other time in the field during bird seasons. When not hunting, a retriever loves to run, train, swim, boat and hike in the woods. I've had four non-hunting Labs in the past and one non-hunting HOUND in the past, a pet AKC male tri Beagle bought as a BYB puppy for just one year. Nothing but trouble. Nose always on the ground. Never paid attention. Not too affectionate. Bit me on the nose at times. Never heard my voice. Never minded. Would pick up a scent out on my local nature trail and run for miles. Had noise issues with the neighbors. Always getting out through a hole in the fence. Had to be rehomed a year later due to destructive behavior. Are foxhounds just as bad?

If I ever wanted a nice black bear rug someday, I could just book with an outfitter and let them deal with the hounds.

Yes, there must be a reason why after all that retrievers are the most popular breeds while hounds are not.