QUESTIONS? MATURE TOM

[SHADOWHUNTER]

I NEED A BETTER UNDERSTANDING, I WOULD LIKE SOME OR ANY EXPERIENCED INPUT ON TRAVELING PATTERNS THAT MATURE TOMS HAVE. DO THEY MAKE BIG CIRCLES OR BIG LOOPS, OR DO THEY TRAVEL ONE DIRECTION FOR "X" AMOUNT OF DAYS AND THEN BACK IN A TERRITORY, AND IF SO HOW MANY DAYS IN BETWEEN BEFORE POSSIBLY CUTTING HIS TRACK AGAIN? THANKS

[bency]

Im no expert but in my experiences they all have a different unique travel pattern that does take them through habitual scratching areas and travel routes. Some toms will hit a set of mountains for 3 days up to a month, then leave and head to the next set continuing this till they find a receptive female.

[Catman]

Depends on who's chasing them. The days I turn out on them it seems they always decide to change mountain ranges

[AZDOGMAN]

Pretty random i think. Dont waste to much time trying to pattern a tom. Could cross there in a week or a month later.

[Big Horn Posse]

It depends on a few things. I have seen older toms that have a good established area hit the same ridges almost like clock work. If you get on a tom like this and you watch when he has traveled and scratched the same ridges you can almost predict within a couple days of him coming back through. I used to hunt a real good area where I could hunt nearly everyday and there was a big mature tom in there that would cross certain areas regulary. Every so often a younger transient tom would pass through as well. There was also a mature female in there that would draw a few toms in. The area I am in now I don't find much sign of resident toms. The scratch piles I find have been used once and the tom never returns. These toms are usually between 3 and 4 yrs old judging by the annual harvest reports. They have no set travel patterns but rather wander. I have been sharinf my finding with the trophy game biologist and he has been seeing the same in other parts of the state as well. I think alot of it is the high amount of harvests in this area preventing a tom to set up residency. Food supply and conditons can also make a difference in the travel patterns of a tom. Their winter areas will be much smaller as the deer and elk herd are more concentrated. Summer their travel areas will be larger. If you are watching a particular cat the best way to see what his beat is is to hunt a particular area you know he has scratched and check it every couple days. Mark it on a calendar when you see he has used it and then keep checking every couple days until he comes back through. I keep a journal of where I find scratches, how many I find on the same ridge and when it has been used. You will get a better idea of what kind of toms you have in the area. Good luck

[chancemarquette]

Well the game and fish studies are based off of cats in sanctuarys so saying you can tell his age from what he does judgeing by what the game fish say is completely ignorant

[Big Horn Posse]

Chance, no offense, but that comment was very ignorant to say. You do not know the biologist I am talking about and to tell you the truth he is a fellow houndsman and has been studying lions longer than you have been alive. I respect him and have been bouncing thoughts and ideas off of him as well as getting advice from him. It is people like him that will help our future lion populations. Deapite your feeling towards game and fish they do have some truly knowledgable and good people working for them.

[chancemarquette]

Ignorant huh? i guess you didnt know my step dad was the wildlife biologist for shirley basin for over 10 years i know what they know about lions and its not much. Their ageing system is not accurate at all, the best way to tell if a tom is mature is to CATCH IT, dont just guess and use educated guesses based on theory!

[Big Horn Posse]

Things have changed alot in the last few years with G&F some good some bad. They have one of the best forensic labs around and this biologist I am talking about who is a carnivor biologist is one of the best around. Like I said you do not know him so saying that he knows nothing is ignorant. You are not keeping on topic and unless you can give input on the travel patterns of mature toms you should not use this as a forum to bash the G&F.

[SHADOWHUNTER]

WELL THE MAIN REASON IS A TOPIC CAME UP BETWEEN ME AND SOME BUDDIES WITH A DEBATE ON WHEN TO CONTINUE "CHECKING" AN AREA WHEN A GOOD SIZE TOM TRACK IS FOUND. I UNDERSTAND IF ONE WERE TO CHECK EVERY DAY FOR 90 DAYS I PROBABLY WOULDNT BE ASKING. SURE ONE GETS OUT OF IT WHAT ONE PUTS INTO IT. UNFORTUNATELY EVEN WITH MY FLEXIBLE SCHEDULE, I CANT HUNT AS MUCH AS I WOULD LIKE TO.ONE BUDDY SAYS CHECK BETWEEN 5-7 DAYS, THE OTHER SAYS BETWEEN 11-14 DAYS, AND THE OTHER SAYS A BIG TOM WILL CROSS BETWEEN 23-28 DAYS. ONE THING I DO IS KEEP A JOURNAL OF KNOWN FEMALES AND GENERALLY CONCENTRATE ON THOSE AREAS. BUT OUT OF THE 4 MOUNTAIN RANGES I HUNT, THERE IS A PARTICULAR TOM I WANT TO HARVEST FOR MYSELF

[Big Horn Posse]

You can also set up a game camera in the spot you think the lion is crossing if you don't have time to go frequently. As far as days a lion will cross the same location on his beat depends on the size of his home range can be 10 days or more so giving a correct answer on that can depend on the lion itself. Good luck

[chancemarquette]

they dont have travel patterns IMO, theres some input, ive seen big tracks of lions by where i live that ive never seen again. just watch any other cat they have no rhyme or reason for what they do.

[lsorenso]

Yep, Im with AZDOGMAN and chance, I can tell you exactly what a mature tom is going to do, when he gets up he will go wherever he wants to, and if he comes back, well he comes back, but he may go to another state to. Anybody who says that they have a set pattern is crazy and sooner or later gonna look bad when that lion decides to go wherever the hell he wants, and he don't have no time frame either, just lots of time to walk around and thats what they do.

[Mr.pacojack]

It depends on a few things. I have seen older toms that have a good established area hit the same ridges almost like clock work. If you get on a tom like this and you watch when he has traveled and scratched the same ridges you can almost predict within a couple days of him coming back through. I used to hunt a real good area where I could hunt nearly everyday and there was a big mature tom in there that would cross certain areas regulary. Every so often a younger transient tom would pass through as well. There was also a mature female in there that would draw a few toms in. The area I am in now I don't find much sign of resident toms. The scratch piles I find have been used once and the tom never returns. These toms are usually between 3 and 4 yrs old judging by the annual harvest reports. They have no set travel patterns but rather wander. I have been sharinf my finding with the trophy game biologist and he has been seeing the same in other parts of the state as well. I think alot of it is the high amount of harvests in this area preventing a tom to set up residency. Food supply and conditons can also make a difference in the travel patterns of a tom. Their winter areas will be much smaller as the deer and elk herd are more concentrated. Summer their travel areas will be larger. If you are watching a particular cat the best way to see what his beat is is to hunt a particular area you know he has scratched and check it every couple days. Mark it on a calendar when you see he has used it and then keep checking every couple days until he comes back through. I keep a journal of where I find scratches, how many I find on the same ridge and when it has been used. You will get a better idea of what kind of toms you have in the area. Good luck

If there was one bit of truth to this ...you would be catching lions. You have caught one lion in how many years and it was a female and you killed it, or i should say you had your boy friend kill it. Talk to your friend and ask him to see the data on the lion studies that are done with the GPS collared cats and then talk to us, better yet post it. if you have seen the lion studies with GPS cats, it is crazy the things they do and it is nothing you would expect. Many of them end up in other states traveling hundereds of miles and never returning , and these are mature cats. Cats like any other wild animal are dictated by their stomach and their sex drive. I agree with the others ... a cat will do what ever they want to not what you want them to.

[lsorenso]

Devin, do they really cross state lines??