There is no snort to it!!!!

[2ndhound]

Dang it! I read the whole post and was impressed with the adult conversation, and good observations, them WHAM!! turns too a pissing contest right towards the end.
I understand the concern of dogs vs traps, and all the ethics involved in trapping and hounding, or hunting of any sort. heck fishing too!
I personally quit trapping for money years ago (Hounds got me) But I still love it. in fact I miss the heck out of it, I don't hunt cloven hooves anymore ( hounds) but I sure do miss it. I rarely go fishing anymore( hounds again)
Lousy hounds ruined my life but have given me much in return well sort of, I get to "trap" various unwanted critters in the most horrible places you can imagine,
I get to "hunt" the cloven ones on a regular basis.
and I get to "fish" in my pockets for that that last dollar to take these turd eaters out catching mostly nothing.
In short we are in this together sportsmen, I met really good guys in all of the activities mentioned. and some that were left behind, And no don't delete my account my list of the good guys isn't complete yet
Ken

[Warner5]

I reread the posts, & I dont believe(Ca.Cat & Fox Hunter) ment any disrespect towards anyone specific. Given the previous posts Beardogger was some what out of line. CaC&FHunter just used him to make his point, If I read right, it sounds like he believe's the problem is with the individual's not the method used. For the most part I agree. I am willing to bet he is an old school, knowledgable houndsmen just venting a little. This site need's as many old school knowledgable houndsmen as it can get. just my 02cents. thankyou. John.

[red river hounds]

Any outdoorsman or woman who has a problem with a fellow outdoorsman mays well put their spandex shorts on grab a helmet and go bike riding with the anti's. Yeah we have strong opinions, its the american way, second place is the first loser and thats the way it should be if you want to excel, but lets excel at keeping ALL our rights and not fighting eachother. Some guys are trophy hunters, some do it for money, some for meat, some for bragging rights, many just for the love and fun of it, or a little of everything mentioned. Yeah some are better and know more about it than others, but if your gonna knock a guy do it the old fashioned way and talk to him man to man especially if hes in your "turf", don't bring it on a world wide website and cry, you never know you might end up liking the guy or teaching him something or vice versa. Humans are just like dogs some should be culled but we can't do that, theres cling ons in every trade and profession not just houndsmen or trappers. Lets not make this site a soap opera site it has too many good people and opinions on it. Have a good nite all you guys and keep the pictures coming especially the lion ones, wish we had them in wisconsin instead of wolves!

[Tom A]

Might make some people upset by saying it but I'm just hoping the price on bobcats will take a nose dive and soon...how many years have they been going high now?
Before anyone gets upset I know there are people out there that trap to make a little money and because they enjoy it but the high price seems to also bring out the people that will kill every $50 queen right along with every $500 tom.
Kinda sad what money will make people do to animals and even each other.
Where are the finished products being sold anyway? You'd think there just wouldn't be enough people out there buying $5000 dollar coats every year but maybe I'm wrong?

Well lets talk facts. Ca has a limit on bobcats set on 14,400 taken a year, during the 1990's the average number taken, both trap and hounds was less then a 1000 a year.

the number taken during 2010-11 was up a little, 1195 bobcats taken. In 1993 Assembly bill 380 would have banned "hunting" and trapping bobcats in CA. The California Trappers Assn. helped defeat this bill so we can still have a season. Thank you TRAPPERS.

[Ker_man]

CA.Cat And Fox Hunter. Quote
''Whoever runs this site please delete my account! This site has nothing more than a bunch of beginner hound owners (I won’t use the term houndsmen) because most on here are just wannabes that haven’t owned hounds for more than a year or two. For the few real houndsmen on here, my hats off to you for putting up with all these new generation, computer hunting, wantabe, disrespectful, know it all in a year hound owners. This is exactly why hound hunting is a dying breed.''

OK been watching with interest. I used to trap but am now a ''hound owner'' that hunts them when I can on what I can for the last 27 yrs.
Yes there are a lot of young people interested and asking questions that might not have a lot of experience to share (those who already know everything don't need to learn).

With all the concern about the trappers, lets not forget the next generation of HOUNDSMEN AND WOMEN! The next Dale Lee or (with respect) Mike Leonard might be playing in the the brush near town with a beagle. For some the internet is the only onfo they can get. Lets start them right.

Nothing wrong with editing a post if done for the right reasons.
Keep smiling, Terry

[Cat track]

I come from a big family of trappers so i guess im on both sides of the fence. One thing i do know if it wasn't for the MN Trappers Asso. we would be screwed in MN. There is several hound organizations in MN and dont ever here of them doing much. I love trapping but preffer hounding. As far as the snares, I would rather have them than connibers. I have seen many hounds get caught in snares and they just sit there and wait for you, just like being on the chain at home. yes, none of the traps/snares are selective, but thats what there meant for is to catch. Just be thankful that all the trappers didn't have hounds or we be taking numbers and pulling out of a hat at each logging road to see who gets that road. We all need to stick together. we have bigger fish to fry, like the wolves and antis.

[George Streepy]

Any outdoorsman or woman who has a problem with a fellow outdoorsman mays well put their spandex shorts on grab a helmet and go bike riding with the anti's.

This type of comment is way of base in my opinion. You can support trappers or other outdoors men without being forced to agree with every aspect of their activity. I am all for trapping but certain snares and conibears shouldn't be used where they can run the high risk of killing someones hound, bird dog, or pet. Last I checked we all shared the woods. Would I agree with the use of bear traps that take the legs off of hikers, no way. You can overall agree with trapping but lets get realistic. Snares and conibears (out of water) have been illegal in my state for many years, and rightfully so. The problem with sharing the woods is we as hound people need to not mess with a trappers set, but trappers should also use some common sense when deciding which type of set to use.

But my real point here is just because you don't necessarily agree with what other outdoors men are doing doesn't make you an anti.

[twist]

George, your last post is very well said I am 100% with you on it. Andy

[red river hounds]

Not trying to throw anyone under the bus George but when something is taken away its very hard to get it back. Would rather have trappers snaring and trapping wolves when it hopefully is legalized in our state and releasing my dog unharmed out of a properly set snare than taking him out of the woods in bits n pieces after the wolves are done with them. Not a trapper, hounds take up my free time, but i'll always support them cause i wouldn't want them trying to take something from us.

[George Streepy]

Red River Hounds,

I get your point. We may have a difference of opinion on certain things but I hear what your saying. I pulled a dog (someone elses pet) out of a connibear trap once and it left a horrible taste in my mouth. I don't really like them obviously, and I do not look very good in spandex either. I think the last thing any of us needs is me in spandex going for a bike ride with antis. It would be a horrible thing for the image of hound hunters!

Take care

[montananative]

Realdog, your big bad dry ground attitude is slightly annoying. when there is not snow to run lions and bobcats, i run coons, ran the last part of of december into january when we had about a 3 week drought. Dry ground dogs on cats here would be tough. Im about as far from a seasoned (cat) houndsmen as they come, in fact i just treed my first lion this year and have yet to tree a bobcat, so i dont know alot about the matter but our ground is frozen all winter. its not like running in dirt where the dogs can grub out some scent. but i, and i think 9 tenths of houndsmen in MT honestly have ZERO use for a dry ground dog out here. When the conditions are not decent for cats, im in the coon woods.

Maybe my assumption about the frozen ground is wrong, i dont know, but Id love to see some dogs work dry ground, im sure it takes a hell of a dog and is fun to watch, but i dont see drygroundin cats working effectively up here

[live to hunt]

Hey native how are your dogs catching coons if the ground is frozen? It sounds like you may have some dry ground coondogs?

[montananative]

The difference between coons and bobcats is night and day. All your coon tracks in cold weather, any weather for that matter will be pretty hot tracks. They will come down, scrounge for some food, get some water and den up. Right now the boars are starting to rut so they are moving good and you can get hot tracks. A 10, 20 minute old coon track compared to a bobcats that could have crossed hours and hours ago is no comparison. Also the sheer amount of coons in the woods i hunt is a bonus.

The terrain we run in for coons is like walking on pavement compared to the shit we chase bobcats in. Its easy for the dogs, easy for me. Coons cant shake a dog like a bobcat will. they are slow, and if they dont tree, the dogs will cathc and kill them on the ground. Comparing coons and bobcats in anyway shape or form is a waste.

And dont get me wrong, my dogs have looked dumb in the winter runnin coons, we dont tree 95% of the tracks we start like summer time, but it beats sitting at home crying over no snow.

[Mackdog]

George,

Quote:
"Snares and conibears (out of water) have been illegal in my state for many years, and rightfully so."

It must be rightfully so that your state has also outlawed bear, lion and bobcat hunting with hounds!!! Of the hound hunters and trappers that I know in N. Idaho, there are very few if any hound/trap problems. The traps are set before you turn your dogs loose, so shouldn't it be your responsibility to either avoid trap lines or teach your dogs to avoid traps? Steve Matthes, one of the greatest houndsmen of all time, trap broke every dog he hunted with and never had a problem. As I said before in this thread, if you want snares and conibear traps outlawed, your tracking system should be outlawed. It goes both ways and there are ways to avoid problems!!!!

[twist]

montananative, for being a nonseasoned cat hunter you are very correct. BIG difference in coon and a bobcat Wish we had the population of cats compared to coon and we may be able to jump a few on the frozen ground and put them up but it would be called jumping them not trailing them as it would be a smoking track. I believe both George and I have never said we are against trapping just disagree on certain issue that doesnt make us anti trapper does it? Alot of houndsmen prefer certain breeds of hounds over others and some would never own only a certain breed does that make them anti hound hunters heck NO! Come on everyone have an open mind. Andy