Urgent! NM Game & Fish is at it again!

[KellyD]

The NM Game & Fish is working on changes to the bear and lion regulations. The proposal for lions is to allow traps and snares to increase the harvest, while also not allowing hounds during the archery elk and deer hunts. We have to get this killed. There will be input meetings around the state. May 4th in Las Cruces, May 5th in Albq, May 27 in Ruidoso, May 28th in Silver City, and June 1 in Raton. Any questions check the Game and Fish site. Try to call, email, & go to a meeting. We need everyone we can get to speak up!!!

[bearsnva]

This just makes me sick and I live across the country from NM. Snares and traps to regulate a population and then keep the dog hunters out of the woods. In Virginia some CPO's (Game Wardens) hand out kill permits like Cracker Jacks to handle supposedly nuisance bears.And then the Game Departments want to preach about hunter recruitment and ethics. I have yet to hear of a state where hound hunters are treated as fairly as other groups. Hope you guys in NM can beat this crap. Good Luck and I hope you get good hound hunter participation.

[Mike Leonard]

KellyD,

Thanks for the heads up. They are already using traps and snares on a wide basis thru their depredation people. It just eats them up that they increased the quotas allowed 2 lion per hunter and a year round season and they still can't get their kill quota. The reason is there are far fewer lions than they tell the public. their problems are concentrated on some of the larger ranch corporations that have a lot of political clout.

What they are hoping is all the lions that are right now being trapped and snared by ranchers and other trappers would be reported and that would show a bigger kill number. At present most of these lions are just shot and dumped or buried. Having released a few larger lions out of traps I can tell you it can be a hairy chore by yourself so you know what happens. Lions also have the nasty habit of eating a lot of prime fur once they figure out the trapper's set line.
If they reported right now all the lions that are being trapped and snared by paid depredation people, Santa Fe will explode! Wilderness Guardians and other groups will be on them like stink on you know what. But they figure if they can get this slipped thru they can blame the hunters and not take the heat.

All they really care about are deer and elk hunters and they want to silence their cries to kill more lions that could be robbing them of the chance to drag home a deer or elk to show off.

[KellyD]

Mike,

Yes, the Game & Fish has been allowing trapping and snaring on private lands, for depredations, & in support of desert bighorn restoration for years. This proposal is for the general license buying public. It is also statewide excluding the boot-heal where someone might catch a Jaguar. The Dept doesn't want to just show more lions being killed they want more lions killed.

Our biggest problem with this issue is thanks to the fact that the Dept has done extensive lion removal in some areas. The Dept does have statistical evidence that lions do indeed eat what the majority of hunters like to hunt/eat, and that lions can and do have an effect on ungulate populations.

No sense complaining about deer and elk hunters. Like it or not without them we would likely have no hunting in this state. We just need to emphasize that lions are part of the wildlife conservation agenda we all support. We need to be vigilant that there must be some semblance of sport hunting and conservation for all our big game animals.

P.S.
There is a Game Commission meeting in Farmington May 7th where the Dept will present the proposed changes to the Commission.

[TravC]

I remember when the quota was increased no houndsmen there complained I agree houndsmen should be able to hunt during the deer and elk season but I think there's a few idiots that just don't want competition bye trappers I'm a trapper and I think it's a good idea I guess I'll rethink how I think of houndsmen for now on If you're not ganna let nm trappers trap lions the he'll with you

[Mike Leonard]

TravC,

I sorry you feel that way.

I grew up hunting and trapping together and I have always had the upmost respect for a good trapper, and I think we have to work together to keep our sports alive.

Problem is if a guy really is bent on trapping lions he will use different size traps and sets than he does for bobcat and coyote. Yes many of them are caught and held in those sets but also I have been called up to trail down many of them that have either tore out of the traps and trashed it or broke off the drag and were walking around with a trap on their foot. So then a lot of guys resort to snares and they are very effective but also catch a lot of other critters which we have found or they use great big old double spring wolf traps that catch and hold deer, elk calves sheep and calves. Remember traps and snares are indescriminate they catch and hold a 40 pound kitten or a 150 pound tom just the same. A dog man usually has the luxury of looking the lion over and if it is not to his liking he can leash the dogs and go home. The trapper is faced with a bit more of a chore and this is where we find the dead lions left in the woods. Not many guys are skinning little lions to try to sell the pelt. there is no real market for cougar hides other than novelty shops, a few novice taxidermists, and possible Native Americans for ceremonial purposes.


At the Commission meeting held in Farmington, last week cougars were the hot topic. The Game and Fish said they had increased the quota to nearly 750 lions statewide in hopes to enhance the sport harvest numbers but usually less that 1/3 of that number is reached. They claim the state has more lions now that ever before and the number could be over 6000. The sighted all the problems about larger traps I mentioned above and then said they will have to do a study how much this number of lions is really impacting the mule deer herd. They said this might take some time as the extreme drouth conditions the southwest has been in the last years have had a definite impact on deer numbers.

So in reality I don't know if much is going to change anytime soon. Meanwhile back at the ranch the coyotes continue to slip thru the brush pretty much unnoticed and kill far more deer than the lions, and the old black bear is just waiting for the elk calves to hit the ground to get his first big protein blast of the year. Trust me nothing was said about that.

[TravC]

As i understand it the restrictions on foothold traps hast been proposed to change on jaw size i doubt the game commision is going to allow 8 lpcs or 4.5 nh whitch I hope they do allow personally ( those are those "big double pring wolf traps youre scared of they've been used on private land a long time for control work on lions as for guys catching lions in coyote and cat sets what the hells the problem? as far as the risk of your dogs getting caught thats part of it and has been a long time this aint nothin new if a fur trapper catches a lion why not keep it?? y'all had 20 years of being the star's of lion control and ain't got r done trapping is in place and from your comments about trapping which are the same as you read on trap free and wildearth guardians bs i can see it wouldnt hurt your feelers if it was outlawed anyhow trappers have supported houndsmen a long time but this backstabbin crap may end that

[broncobilly]

Under the departments proposal the size of trap that could legally be set would NOT change. Also, as was pointed out, there is very little market for lion pelts. These two facts taken together suggest that very few additional lions would be taken by trappers, just a few by trappers who want one for their "bucket list", and a few incidental catches that would be harvested instead of released. Had the guides, outfitters, and houndsmen figured this out and used this issue to try to get hunting with dogs back during the archery seasons, the trappers would have supported them and we might have been able to get something done. Instead, the guides, outfitters and houndsmen have attacked the trappers to the point that it is questionable whether or not the trappers will show up next time the houndsmen need some support.

You may not have noticed, but the trappers have been the major targets in NM by the anti-hunters and animal rightists. This has forced them to be well organized and pro-active, and they have been instrumental in holding what rights we have left for all consumptive use outdoor sportsmen(that would be all hunters and trappers). I would like to think that trappers are enough smarter than houndsmen to realize that unless we all work together we will all loose our rights and that the trappers will still show up for the houndsmen next time they are needed, but I have to admit that I am doubtful that will be the case. I am very afraid that you all really screwed the pooch this time. I hope I am wrong, but I have a hard time being very hopeful.

By the way, do you know where the push for this proposed change came from, it wasn't from the trappers, it came from the landowners, not just the "evil larger ranch corporations" Mike referenced, but from a large number of ranchers who are having depredation problems. If you guys have ticked off the landowners as much as you have the trappers, and from some of the conversations I have had with ranchers I believe you have, then not only are you not likely to get more of your hunting season back, but the amount of land you will have permission to hunt is about to get smaller.

As a person who is a landowner and a trapper and a houndsman, I am very sorry that so many houndsman made a kneejerk reaction to attack the trappers instead of stepping back and working on a solution that would have benefited the trappers, the houndsmen, and the landowners.

Bill A. Brockman

[Gary Roberson]

Well said. I am a Texas resident but have great friends and hunt quite a bit in NM. I would hope that not only the trappers and houndsmen, but landowners get on the same page. Predator control is a subject that hunters, trappers and landowners should be able to agree on. Now or later, I will assure you that it is going to take a coordinated effort to beat the anti's.
Adios,
Gary

[david]

I recently visited a friend in NM. Got to view a good portion of the state and it's animals including sighting two recently released Mexican wolves. Saw several signs posted guarding the wolves. My friend is an old lion hunter and he said this is what the new push for dead lions is all about: needing to make things easier for their pet wolves.

[broncobilly]

I don't know who your friend is, probably wouldn't know him if you did mention his name, but I must respectfully disagree with him. It doesn't take a lot of research into the position of the NM State gov, or into the position of many of the state agencies, including the G&F, to realize that the government of the state of NM is not exactly friendly to wolves and the suggestion that the G&F is trying to reduce lion numbers in favor of Wolves is pretty far fetched. I am certainly not defending all that they do, but they have been on the right side of the wolf issue since we finally got rid of Bill Richardson, and I try to give credit where credit is due.

Bill

[david]

I really know nothing about it other than what I saw. I saw signs in several places saying Mexican wolves had been released and that it was a serious crime to fool with them or harm them. I also saw two of them in about the same place I saw a big herd if elk. They acted rather dull and confused, and gave me the impression they did not really know too much about survival. Just an uneducated guess on my part.

If the state is unfreindly to wolves, who is releasing them and threatening to jail anyone who touches one? Who would be paying the great expenses of the jail time? Who is paying the cute girls riding around with telemetry equipment checking on the wolves they know by name? I assumed the state was involved with that. If not the state, then who is doing all that? And how much time and money do you suppose each one of those wolves represents? And how much do you think whoever is doing that wants that time and money to prove successful? And what predators might represent tremendous competition for free wolf food? You got me really curious now. Is this all federal, and done against the states will? And if so, how much influence does the fed have on the lion laws in question? I am not pretending to know. Just confused with conflicting and incomplete information.

[Cowboyvon]

US fish and wildlife services... Federal Government. You the tax payer are paying for it.. cute girls, prosecution fees, jail time, .. and it is done against the locals will.. Not sure what predators compete for wolf food but lions and bears I guess on the Elk calfs and of course hunters.. The wolfs also work on the ranchers calfs ... and guess what if they can prove that it was a wolf you pay for that too..

[broncobilly]

Below is a copy of an email that should dispel the myth that the NM Game Commission is in favor of wolves or that they would try to kill more lions to provide more food for the wolves. Here is a chance for the houndsmen to actually do something constructive for their sport, as well as for all sportsmen, instead of just bashing your fellow sportsmen who happen to catch game with traps instead of hounds. The wolves are a much bigger threat to houndsmen than trappers will ever be so let’s see if the houndsmen can generate as much publicity opposing the wolf as they did opposing the trappers. If you don’t want even more wolves infesting even more of your hunting areas then write those letters, send those emails, and show up in Taos. The information is all below.

Bill A. Brockman

As many of you already know, at last month’s NM Game Commission meeting, the renewal request by the Ladder Ranch to have their permit renewed to raise Mexican Gray Wolves and turn them over to the US Fish & Wildlife Service to be released in Southern New Mexico was denied by a unanimous vote of the commission. This vote took the Ladder Ranch personnel and USFW by surprise. Environmental groups that are strongly pro-wolf and anti-hunting are in an uproar over this issue! They are even staging a protest at the state capitol in Santa Fe today to try to move the Governor to pressure the commission to reverse their vote.

Furthermore the Ladder Ranch and USFW have requested that this item once again be placed on the commission agenda at their June 13th meeting in Taos, NM. They will be bring their “big guns” to this one.

I know that each one of you I have sent this email to has a personal interest in trying to keep USFW from a massive wolf release to all lands South of Interstate 40 in New Mexico. Below are two things that are imperative for you to do. One today, and one within the next week.
1. Contact the Governor’s office today to voice your support for the stand taken by the New Mexico Game Commission in denying the renewal of the Ladder Ranch permit. You can either call or email her office. The number is 505.476.2200. Email at: http://www.governor.state.nm.us/Contact ... ernor.aspx
2. Contact as many of the Game Commissioners as you can within the next week to voice your support for their vote in May, and encourage them remain strong in their stand to once again deny the renewal of the Ladder Ranch permit at the June 13th meeting. It is very important that they be able to announce during the Taos commission meeting that they have had massive support for their stance to deny the permit. Here is their contact information:

Chairman Paul Kienzle, Albuquerque: paul@kienzlelaw.com
Vice-Chairman Bill Montoya, Alto: billmontoya@hotmail.com
Elizabeth Atkinson Ryan, Roswell: bethryanlawyer@gmail.com
Robert Espinoza, Farmington: robert_nmgf@live.com
Ralph Ramos, Las Cruces: ralphramos@comcast.net
Bob Ricklefs, Cimarron: bob.ricklefs@gmail.com
Dickie Salopek, Las Cruces: DickSalopek@hotmail.

You can copy and paste all these email addresses to one email.

If it is at all possible for you to attend the Saturday, June 13 th Commission meeting in Taos, NM, please be there to voice your opinion in person!

Please forward this email to sportsmen, ranchers, or any other interested parties you know!