B&T/Walker Cross?

[r_cordell]

Just wondering if anybody out there had any thoughts on Black and Tan and a Walker cross. I've got a 2 1/2 year old female that's working pretty good on bobcats and she's been in on some lions too and was kind of thinking about crossing her with a full blood walker of a friend of mine's. anybody have any experience with this mix?

[houndcrazyfool]

i would like to know too. I have two 6 month old b&t/walker dogs and they are both raring to go. One is really cold nosed and the other is an intense tree dog. So far so good...

[DWD58]

I have hunted with several crossed dogs back in the 1970s and they usually work out well on the first cross. Some of the best dogs I have hunted with, were a black and tan /bluetick cross and one of the best I ever owned was a blue tick/walker cross. This is because of hybrid vigor, when you take two dogs that have been bred within their breed for many generations that are totally unrelated and cross them. But the problem comes when you take that good hybrid crossed up female or male and try to get pups out of them (The F2 generation). I have never seen an F2 that could throw anything near as good as what they were and most of the time, they are very poor producers.
Just a thought, if I were you, I would take that good female, and find a good proven stud out of the same family and go that route and try to carry on a good line. This is the best move in the long run.

[Spanky]

I've got a 2 1/2 year old female that's working pretty good on bobcats and she's been in on some lions too and was kind of thinking about crossing her with a full blood walker of a friend of mine's. anybody have any experience with this mix?

This should really be in the general discussions not the black and tan forum simply because your question is not one of bettering the breed of black and tan by crossing breeds.

There are alot of fellas that have made similar crosses that are called hi tans. Have run with some great one's over the years but once you cross the line of mixing breeds you will have a hard time reproducing the same caliber of hounds again.

Some may come out looking like black and tans some like walkers and some with alot of tan coloring. My concern though is why are you looking to make the cross in the first place.

What I mean by that is I guess my first question would be about your buddies walker, how much have you hunted with it and what traits does it show you that make you think he is the one to breed to?

Next I would ask why not back on another black and tan with similar bloodlines with proven ability?

Lastly how much experience does your female have and what are her strong points that make you think she is worthy of breeding?

[r_cordell]

I was just kind of toying with the idea because my B&T female is pretty fast for a B&T, and I thought that a cross with a walker would give me a little more grit and aggressiveness. My buddies dog is a sure enough hunter that has a pretty good nose on him too. I've hunted with him the last couple winters but just lions, no bobcats. I'll be the first to admit that I don't know a whole lot about breeding hounds, so any advice is appreciated. I had a male 3/4 B&T 1/4 Blue Lacy that I think was gonna turn out to be a good hunter, but he died this last summer. He was super tough and gritty, but I had to castrate him cause he was kind of a fighter and i didn't need that. My female has some duncan blood in her, so do you think I would be better off crossing her back with another Duncan Male. What I would like to get is a cold nosed, fast, smart, gritty dog. But then I guess who doesn't want that? I'd like to hear anybodies ideas.

[larry]

Think you just described a plott! First cross could be good, but where will you be able to go from there is the main question I think everyone is asking. If you have unlimited time and dog space i would go crazy with it and cross her to pure and crosses, keep what you want and cull all the rest, mixed pups after the first cross could be hard to sell and may not be worthy of selling. Should be able to sell pure breds of a proven cross without having to keep em around to long.

[Spanky]

there are several good males in the state that come either out of Kens stuff or descendents of kens kennel. Tony Knuchels Cooter hound is awesome and is out of Duncans Bo. Jim Barones Titan hound is a duncan hound 3 generations back and does extremely well on both bobcat and cougar. I can get you a few more names if your interested

[r_cordell]

I probably won't get her bred till after at least one more winter. I'd like to see her develop into a little better bare ground dog. She's pretty good now but I think she could get better with some more experience. If she learns a little bit more I'll probably decide to get her bred, but if she doesn't develop like I think she should, I probably won't do it. I'd hate to be the guy breeding junk dogs. But I appreciate your input and I'll keep those names in mind and any other ideas anybody might have.

[cecil j.]

I probably won't get her bred till after at least one more winter. I'd like to see her develop into a little better bare ground dog. She's pretty good now but I think she could get better with some more experience. If she learns a little bit more I'll probably decide to get her bred, but if she doesn't develop like I think she should, I probably won't do it. I'd hate to be the guy breeding junk dogs. But I appreciate your input and I'll keep those names in mind and any other ideas anybody might have.

Black & tan x Plott is up breeding and big game hounds that make inspired too catch and tussle with a bear and they are pretty boot leather healed tuff & ready action dogs. They get bear slaped and still make the tree and bit by a bear in thefront sholder/still are in there game rooster calabered and lear from it and get even smarter and better.

[deer dogger]

yes sir,ive had one for deer, and it was fast! it would burn the hide off a deer! it was usually one of the first dogs to cross the line.

[bigdog061]

With all due respect......the guys that say F2,F3 generations wont reproduce....have you actually stuck with it say oh, 30 years! Long story short.....uncle had registered walker 1974, breed to B&t 3 dogs turned out excellent, 1 of them best I ever seen (slicked treed 2 times in 7 1/2 years crossed again with with redbone 1 dog lived...went on and breed to walker 2 times 3/4 walker 1/4 redbone. Shotgun 98% accurate....just died 4 years ago. 31years of feeling sorry for coon struck

Paul

[powerhound]

The best dog I ever owned was a B&T / Walker cross. Don't listen to spanky, the best dogs are some of the mixed ones.

[Vance M.]

I talked to a B&T breeder back east a few years ago. He told me a lot of the B&T breeders were breeding in walker blood into their blood even though they would not confess to it. He said they were getting smaller faster dogs better suited for the night hunts. I dont know how reliable this guy was but that is what he told me. I read the same thing on a board a while back too.

[Redneck]

talking about B&T walker crosses i have done this my self , my female i crossed her over to a nance bred walker , these pups should be smokers for coons and lions and even bears , my female runs track fast chop on track and double chop on tree ,the stud used was a full nance walker loud long bawl , these pups are already pullin fur on coon skins and bob cat skins at 5 weeks of age so this cross should be awesome this cross sold all but two before they were even born ....

[Deff]

That pup I got from you last winter is a sure enough long legged, loud bawl mouthed, hunting minded fool!
Too soon to know how she will develop but she has helped stretch a coon that picked the wrong dinner bowl to raid and is definitely not a slow track straddler! She seams independent minded enough to make a bobcat dog and that bawl of hers should inspire most any lion to climb the nearest tree!
All in all, a very promising pup.

Now -- I'm a bit partial to B&Ts probably just because I had a couple of good ones in the past, but I care way more about both the parents being real hunting dogs than their color or papers. You may be better off breeding to a hound that you know and like than to one that is “popular”. If they hunt, they are western big game hounds -- if not, they are mutts whether pure or crossbred.

Your corner of Montana is a great proving ground for hounds – dry ground tracking opportunities and lots of real estate between lions. If they do the job for you, they will probably work for just about anybody.