Wormer

[cobalt]

I've checked with my vet and we crunched the numbers on dosage of Equimax when used on dogs. If you give the proper dose of praziquantel to kill tapeworms that would mean you would be overdosing the ivermectin by 5 to 6 times. Short term effects of this can be severe siezures for up to several days or DEATH! Long term effects might cause brain damage depending on the dog and especially the breed. For those of you that have a border collie or any herding dog, ivermectin can be very dangerous. The blood/brain barrier is thinner in some dogs than others. If you are giving Equimax for the proper dose of ivermectin for dogs, you will be way shy of the dose of praziquantel needed to have any effect on tapeworms.
Using a thin ribbon of horse worming paste is a poor way to dose your dog. Those tubes are for a 1200# horse. If you have 50# dogs, thats 24 doses per tube. Since horses and dogs use the same dose per pound of ivermectin, it works out good.
If your dog has heartworms and you give them ivermectin, there's a good chance it will kill the heartworm AND the dog.
Pups can be treated with ivermectin as early as 6 weeks old.

[Everlast]

Question for you guys/gals.........what's the best stuff to use to worm 9 week old pups to get everything. (except heartworms)?

[cobalt]

Strongid(pyrantel pamoate) is very safe on pups for roundworm and hookworm, becuase it almost none of it can be absorbed into the body. It basically paralyzes the worms so they can't attach to the walls of the intestine.
Nemex is another brand name of pyrantel pamoate.

[Everlast]

Where can I get that at? Recommended dosage?

Appreciate your help.........

[cobalt]

Do a web search for 'strongid wormer'. That should guide you right.

[liontracker]

Cobalt -what about Drontil or the less expensive version - Virbantil?

[BluetickChick]

Hi all,

All of the discussion about the chemical wormers, have brought me to carry the Diatomaceous Earth, as a chemical free, effective wormer. I offer the food grade which is the kind that is safe to be ingested.

The DE, will take care of all kinds of intestinal worms or parasites, whether it be a hook worm, whip worm, round worm, or even the hard to get tapeworm. It is safe to use on nursing females and pups. You cannot overdose!!!

I sell it in quart and gallon size buckets, but at those sizes, when being used as a wormer, goes a LONG way. To give you an example on dosage, an average full grown hound will take (1) tablespoon in the feed for 3-5 days. So, 5 tablespoons, which weighs approximately 2 ounces, will cost about .92 cents. So, for $22, you will get approximatly, 24 doses!! Almost 2 years worth if you do it once a month. Plus, NO CHEMICALS!!! And safe for pups, or nursing females. Plus, it's effective for all kinds of worms.

Ask around. I just spent about three months on the road, hitting some of the major hunts in the midwest, and south. The guys love it!! I hope to help you all too...

Check out my website, http://WWW.MEARICLE.COM, e-mail me, PM me, or ask a question on the board. I'd love to help you.

HTH,

[cobalt]

LT--Drontal is a safe effective wormer for dogs 2wks and older. It is a mix of praziquantel, pyrantel and febantel. All compounds that cannot pass into the bloodstream, making them very safe. They paralyze the target worm allowing the system to pass it. It is expensive. Anything with praziquantel is more expensive due to marketing stategies(my opinion). Although it is also my opinion that tapeworm meds are not neccessary until a pup is older(lets say 4mo.), because while roundworms and hookworms can be acquired through mom's milk, feces, and dirt, tapeworms can only be aquired through an intermediate host. Fleas are the most common, but dead fish and other animals also carry. The affected dog must injest(eat) the flea or dead animal to contract the worm. It is way less likely that young pups can contract tapeworms, so Strongid or Nemex is probably all you need. They are inexpensive.
Bluetickchick-- Sorry to be the barer of bad news, but there are studies that have shown that DE has no affect on intestinal worms. Also, if a dog has any intestinal ulcers, DE can be harmful. I think it will do some good on earmites and fleas, but Frontline is much more effective. I used to use DE for worms, but it just didn't work.

[liontracker]

Thanks for confirming.

[BluetickChick]

Colbalt--It is a shame that you didn't have any luck with DE, as many studies, field trials, and USDA approval have shown it to be a VERY effective wormer, as well as pest control. There are of course, many different factors involved, as to what makes one product more or less effective than another. Factors such as quality, grade, dosage, or term in treatment, are just a few of the considerations, as to why a product could prove to be ineffective for one consumer and not another. Thousands of consumers nationwide can't all be wrong. My Food Grade DE is just another option.

In reguard to the use of DE where stomach ulcers are a concern, I offer Food Grade DE, which has been approved by the USDA, as an effective neutral anthelmentic (de-wormer). It has been approved as an acceptable organic feed which means it's safe to use where stomach ulcers are of concern. Here is something to consider: We take magnesium hydroxide, or "Milk of Magnesia", in chemical terms Mg(OH)2, for stomach aches. Food Grade DE, is nothing but silicated diatoms, with abrasive, absorbing, filtering qualities, when added to feed, not only helps to de-worm, but will help to cleanse and promote, digestive and intestinal health. Again, thousands of consumers nationwide can't be wrong, plus, I myself wouldn't offer something to treat intestinal worms, if the USDA hadn't appoved it.

IMO--we've all been fooled into buying what the pharmecutical companies want us to buy, when really, the natural answer is there, and always has been. Even the USDA agrees!!

Cheers,

[cobalt]

Bluetickchick-I think it is great that you promote DE as an agent to combat parasites on dogs and other animals and I think it is a good natural way to take care of these pests and promote health. I did some studying to further educate myself and found out a couple things.
#1- According to what I read, I probably wasn't using DE correctly for tapeworms. It takes 45 days or more of heavy application to eliminate tapeworms using DE(which makes it less cost effective and more labor intensive than Praziquantel). My dogs are out in a flea infested environment daily which means they would need DE 365 days a year.
#2- I didn't see where the USDA had approved DE, I did see that the FDA and the AVMA had NOT approved of it.
#3- I called my vet and asked their opinion. What they said only was of all the dogs that come in to be certified as therapy dogs, which means a negative fecal exam(worm free), none that were on DE(and there were quite a few) could pass. THEY ALL HAD WORMS!

[BluetickChick]

Cobalt--DE is indeed an effective, chemical free, alternative to the chemical wormers.

Further research will show, that a thorough 5 day regimine of DE, should prove effective, as a means to remove intestinal parasites, as the digestive track will show results of passing DE, in 24 hours. It is also a safe food additive to feed daily, as a method to promote good intestinal health, and to offer a "hostile" environment to intestinal parasites.

As is usual with any sort of government findings, , to find the information within the UDSA, the regulation puts you back to the FDA, and the approval under the Food and Drug Cosmetic Act, SCOGS Substances. With SCOGS Substances being a committee formed to decide on GRAS substances, which are: A food substance that is not subject to premarket review and approval by FDA because it is generally recognized, by qualified experts, to be safe under the intended conditions of use.

And with the Vet's opinion-- I would question the factors such as quality, grade, dosage, or term in treatment in all subject animals. If the subject animals were all under the same trial conditions, to test the effectiveness of DE, where every part of their treatment were regulated to the same dose, feeding, regimine, I could go with it being ineffective. However, without knowing the controls of the study, I can neither confirm, nor deny, the validity of that statement.

Again, I offer a suitable alternative that should someone want to try it, I know they would be pleased with the result. I also, am always interested to hear from my customers their experiences with their products. And I've always found that when they do not find the results they were looking for, it's always in their application. We then try again the directions as listed on the label, and they always call back, pleased with their results.

Hopefully, I've offered someone else some viable alternatives.

Cheers,

[buckshot]

No offense, BluetickChick -- besides selling the stuff and promoting it pretty hard, where is your expertise behind DE other than as a salesman with a pitch?

I am more interested in folks like cobalt's opinion who don't have a stake in it behind a sales pitch.

From what I have read on the different hunting dog forums, was pretty much what cobalt's opinion of it was. Beagles, Gundogs, Retrievers, and etc.. forums.

The FDA has not approved DE as an internal parasite control. --- which you stated has been.

Here is the FDA's site: http://www.fda.gov/ -- show us where DE has been approved as a wormer.

I know using DE for a wormer in Horses is a violation of Federal Law.

Q: Can I use natural compounds such as BT, diatomaceous earth or dolomite to deworm my horses?

A: Research studies on natural compounds including BT, diatomaceous earth and dolomite has not demonstrated effectiveness against gastrointestinal worms in horses, although their unproven use is published in lay print and internet non-scientific literature. Since none of these compounds have been approved by the FDA for dewormers, their use in deworming horses is a violation of Federal law.


Texas A&M Extension Veterinary Medicine
http://aevm.tamu.edu/page.asp?o=vm&s=vm&p=344571

[cobalt]

You've got your shpeal down pat. Good job on promoting your product. I think it is a good product that has certain positive application. I wish you success and wealth. My
last breath on this topic is; can your dog or dogs pass a fecal exam at the vets office?
Please post. Good luck.

[BluetickChick]

My intention in participating in this topic was not to throw out a "spheal", or "pitch". If it came across that way, that was NOT my intention, and I apologize. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion and sources of information, which is what makes an open forum so great. My mention of DE, is based on my lifetime experiences and knowledge of the product both from a consumer and dealer standpoint. I have first hand experience with the product, as I use it. When I found out others were still taking chances with the different chemical wormers, and not having alot of luck, hence this whole topic, I decided to carry it with my other products hoping someone else might have the same success I did. When I see the which wormer do you like question come up, and then seeing the discussion of what to try, I am just a consumer too at that point and I offer my opinion as a consumer. I've used the product, had success with the product and like it. Maybe the person asking the question will too, maybe they wont, but at least they will have heard that there is something else out there to try. Just my opinion.