Mike Leonard wrote:The only problem is there is not much money in pursuit.
Install a "Pursuit Permit" like utah does for bears. That will produce revenue, charge $25 resident (just something reasonable) and $50 non res. Multiply that by the boatload of "hunters" you have and thats a pretty big number.
Joe, I rembember me and you talked about female quotas and I said i wish they would do them here with a pursuit season. Maybe you were right buddy sounds like a few people can ruin it for everybody.
I say quite the contrary. Pursuit is EASY ! The game commission scoffs at the idea because when the houndsmen ask for it .. they want to introduce a new FEE or License. In NM these new fees must be approved by the legislature.. this is difficult.
All you have to do is require a full fledged cougar license. Problem solved.
But you'll never get those tree huggers (New Mexico Wildlife Federation, Sandia mtn Bear watch etc..) to go along. They think it is OK to tree a bear or lion then KILL IT but its UNETHICAL to tree it then let it go (i.e. just for fun). Been to too many of those meetings not interested in ever attending again.
Great posts- sounds like we've got our work cut out for us....I'm glad you brought up the subject Joe. I am an outfitter, rancher, and houndsman. I like the idea of a female sub-quota, in fact I've never even seen a female lion hit the dirt, but would personally like to see lion zone C open for more than 2 months. My booked hunters can either hold out for a tom, or re-book next year. Our 2009 bear season consisted of only 22 days that you could legally hunt with hounds.
Now is the time to get organized, educate ourselves, make our voice heard, and try to make some positive changes.
Chris and Ron Corvin are heading up the NM Houndsman Assn. Chris, Ron, and myself are meeting with Rick Winslow (NM Large Carnivore Biologist) this month to discuss options, management, zone boundaries, and CHANGE. Our goal is to have our issue brought before the commission at the March meeting in Santa Fe.
I'd like to encourage all NM houndsman to join the NMHA (out of state houndsmen we could use your help as well).
What can you do ? Please take a minute to PM me. Include your contact info. (name, mailing address, email address, and phone number) write down your thoughts on pursuit only season, draw licenses, non-resident license fees, zone boundaries, ect. Chris or Cindy Corvin will mail you a NMHA membership form, we will take all of your thoughts and ideas with us to the meeting, and keep everyone informed of progress and obstacles via mass emails.
3/4 of the cougars harvested in NM are taken by outfitters and there clients. It has been that way for the last 20 years. Check the records if you dont believe me. So if they are harvesting 3/4 of the states harvest they are the ones that need educating. the problem is money is what they are after so educating wont help. Its an unfornate thing that when we have big snow years quotas are going to close fast.
Im not against outfitters, ive even hired out myself and dogs to catch a few lions for them.
One thing to ask for when you talk with Rick is when the quotas dont fill some years and there is an excess of lions why not carry a few over until the next year.
Another thing is we are managing the female quotas for around 25% harvest of population. All the research shows that if you harvest 30-35% of females over a 3 year period the lion population will decrease. At a 25% annual feamle harvest our lion populations will be growing.
Thats the problem with quotas once you set those numbers they are hard to change
So out of that 3/4 of the total harvest, what percentage are females?
Try voluntarily harvesting 0% females for a few years and watch what happens to the lion population.
And yes the guys shooting the females can be educated, it worked here.
The outfitters will have to work a little harder, especially when thier hunter is also educated on not taking females, by way of the lion hunting proclamation.
Yes sir, someone needs to sit those outfitters down in front of a chalkboard and show them the math. It was obviously not thier best subject in school!LOL
Either that, or the State needs to cut the quota in half...ASAP.
I am reading all of this and I know that I am new to the sport, but everything I know about hounds I have learned from sombody else. If the guys I hunt with would have said we kill everything we see. Then I would have done the same. Thats not what they did. The first bear hunts I went on I was so excited to see a bear and all I wanted to do was shoot it. I was taught that this sport is more about the dogs than it is about the kills. I did take one bear and it was big old 7ft bear which the taxadermy guy said is really big for our area. When that bear was in the tree my buddy told me if you want a nice bear on the wall that would be the one. I really had no idea how big it was it was hard for me to judge the size way up in a tree. I guess what I am saying is it is the example of the old guys of this sport that has taught me want kind of houndsmen to be. This is now going to be my first lion season and I am excited to see some lions. It will be the same kind of thing I dont know what a big old Tom looks like and I have to look for advice from some one who knows more than me to say if that Tom will be a shooter. I want a nice lion for the wall but I dont want to kill 20 before I find the one I like. I was taught that the hunt is what is important not the kill. I think that same way. I read on here about lots of people who seem to belive that same thing. They are in it for the love of the dogs and the outdoors. I just hope that what we say and do while other people are watching is the samething we say and do when no one is around.
I am soon to be 76 years old and i do all my hunting on the computer now,Big Game,hogs,coon mostley Big game. if you Google up Gov'thunter damage control,animals you will find where two hunters in mont. killed 23 lions in 5 days in two deer yards,now that is killing ,where hunters in Nev. took plane and killed several lions from the air, a co- worker blew the whistle on them and he got fired,now his trial is coming up test the whistleblower law.You need the Gov hunters when young I would LOVED to had PacoJacks job,i think some people even Gov hunters get carried away with the job. and all Elk and Deer hunter think a lion should not exist.That out fitter can not pay the bills if he don't produce.small medium or large.I think it is sad you guys in your thirtys will some day give your dog away because you won't be allow to hunt.
Carrie Underwood gave 200,000 dollars to the humane Society, now thy filed a suit to OUT law all hunting in Tenn with dogs. [buy her records] so did Emmy Lou Harris, Dolly Pardon
Well I hope all these dumbasses up north learn thier lesson well. Two zones already closed with 35 toms left over. Greedy bastards couldn't help but shoot a bunch of little females. I will just be glad to see them off the roads so I can bobcat hunt. Maybe this is just what a lot of these guys needed so things can change.
"True success is being able to move from failure to failure never losing ones optimism" Thomas Edison
Arkansas Frog wrote: if you Google up Gov'thunter damage control,animals you will find where two hunters in mont. killed 23 lions in 5 days in two deer yards
Can you post up the link to this story, I couldn't find it.
