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JohnAdam, the issue may not be the change in the cat's scent but the fact the dogs are making a lose in the first place. How many dogs are you running? Do all the dogs contribute to the race? If you run 6 dogs are 2 consistently finding the track out of the loses? I would try to remember back to the races you have caught cats, which dogs did the best. I would take your top 2 dogs leave the rest at home once those 2 dogs can consistently catch cats add more dogs. Dogs that are successful together a lot will learn to honor each other and ignore other dogs. Sometimes all it takes is a slight change in hunting style to go from starting a track and hoping for a catch to starting a track and expecting a catch. A jumped cat with dogs heads up and running will on a 5 minute lose a lot of times be cold trailing out of the lose. To many 5 minutes loses and that cat will not be caught.

al baldwin wrote:

Cowboyvon wrote: And also I didn't read all the way through this but as far as cold trailing a lion before the jump, I know you can be just moving along just fine moving the track like your going to get her jumped and then things slow down to a stand still .. I know location of the track can cause that but I also she goes from just walking along to sneaking .. not really turning off her scent but surely not leaving as much

------------Cowboyvon reading this got me to thinking. Last bobcat we treed this season, we had 8 hounds on the track, start to tree. Three one & half year, two between three & four & three old hounds that are past their prime. Track started out sounding good, soon hit a much slower pace, both Tom & I at one point, were thinking maybe a backtrack, a real treat we got to see a lot of struggles, as the dogs fanned out in different directions. Long story short, there was more one than one of those struggles, but turned out nice in the end, bobcat treed in fir tree, on the very edge of a big rock. Johnadam hope you read this, because we were very pleased with team work of all dogs on the trailing &jump.But,we both knew we would never seen this cat without those three old locating tree hounds. All these hounds have a bit of running blood in them, one female will ten this august, believe she was over four before she started treeing. We both wondered if she was going to tree at all . My opinion you may be treeing some cat & your dogs not locating. Find you a good locator, does not matter if it/s a lab, long as it locates & trees. Al

Really this is something Orville Fletcher and I talked about .... now I'm talking about cold trailing... and this is something all the old time lions hunters talk about the Lions turning off there scent .. and according to Orville thats what he thought really happened... and he has trailed a few lions lol

I sure never new catching cats was all this hi tech. Way to much thinking going on!!!!!! Dogs screw up that's a fact but if it's happening more times than not stop making excusses find a different dog!!!!# ANDY

X2

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Everybody hunts different on this board. I know guys that rarely have track problems that we hunt with that are coyote hunters. They don't have track problems cuz they drive the roads in the snow and put their dogs on fresh tracks. You best not be making too many losses in that situation. I personally don't do it that way except for when I'm with then and my dogs always lookin 3x better than they do at home the way I do it. I like it cuz they think I got good dogs. HAHA! They don't have a clue.

You know I re read my post and the way it reads makes it sound like I'm saying Orville said that they turn off their scent ( and its not only Orville many of the old time lion hunters say that something sure happens) .. If you didn't read my other post thats what it reads like lol ... what he said is that he believed that was when they go to sneaking around instead of just walking through the country.. this is cold trailing an over night track... I just always thought they had wings and started flying lol .. I'm talking about lions in SW NM ... bobcats are a different story heck I don't even know what a bobcat looks like lol

Cowboyvon wrote:

al baldwin wrote:

Cowboyvon wrote: And also I didn't read all the way through this but as far as cold trailing a lion before the jump, I know you can be just moving along just fine moving the track like your going to get her jumped and then things slow down to a stand still .. I know location of the track can cause that but I also she goes from just walking along to sneaking .. not really turning off her scent but surely not leaving as much

------------Cowboyvon reading this got me to thinking. Last bobcat we treed this season, we had 8 hounds on the track, start to tree. Three one & half year, two between three & four & three old hounds that are past their prime. Track started out sounding good, soon hit a much slower pace, both Tom & I at one point, were thinking maybe a backtrack, a real treat we got to see a lot of struggles, as the dogs fanned out in different directions. Long story short, there was more one than one of those struggles, but turned out nice in the end, bobcat treed in fir tree, on the very edge of a big rock. Johnadam hope you read this, because we were very pleased with team work of all dogs on the trailing &jump.But,we both knew we would never seen this cat without those three old locating tree hounds. All these hounds have a bit of running blood in them, one female will ten this august, believe she was over four before she started treeing. We both wondered if she was going to tree at all . My opinion you may be treeing some cat & your dogs not locating. Find you a good locator, does not matter if it/s a lab, long as it locates & trees. Al

Really this is something Orville Fletcher and I talked about .... now I'm talking about cold trailing... and this is something all the old time lions hunters talk about the Lions turning off there scent .. and according to Orville thats what he thought really happened... and he has trailed a few lions lol

I once had a good track in decent conditions go dead for several hundred yards around a curved bluff face. We set there for a hour or more trying to figure it out and sending dogs back out. After giving up we started riding around the finger of the bluff to try finding a way to the top where I figured the cat had gone. Night quite acrossed the bluff from where the track died all the dogs struck hot and raced off. I thought he might have just gone over the top. But a ways ahead we found a kill. The track went up the other direction into a ledge area and while riding through we found fresh scat and a scrap further up. After catching him and coming back I realized he couldnt have come over the top of the first ginger like I expected as it had a nearly sixty foot wall towards the top running the length of it. I think the track was much older then I had thought at first as he had Fed on the kill and moved it twice. I believe the blank spot was where he stalked the deer. Maybe the flattening of ears and body along with the hair helps hold the scent to a higher degree then normal.
On the other hand the easiest cats are those out sunning themselves after a cold front so long as you hit the track fresh enough to avoid those and days before. Just experience and theories

Read around the spellchecker errors I don't have time to fix it

Cowboy Von I did not think you were saying lion turn off their scent. Cold trailing bobcat hounds also hit those dead spots. I knew the cats were not sneaking ahead of the dogs in those situations, always puzzled me why those dead spots happened. To me your theory made sense, bobs surely move real slow when stalk hunting, and that could explain dead spots in area where one wonders why. I know for sure bobs here do at times tiptoe ahead of some of the best dogs that have been in this area. --------------Andy I wish you could bring your dogs here and spend a winter, believe you would experience some things you have never seen before. And if I spend a winter in your country, ( an did not freeze to death ) I also would see things I never saw before.---------Dewey is correct, until houndsmen can smell the track it will be just each hunter theory. However what is wrong with a little thinking, as long don/t get to thinking we can smell better than the hounds. Respectful Al

Well we been derailed again,maybe in a good way, dead spots in a cold trail is another can of worms. In the area I hunt these can normally be accounted for by terrain changes such as bald rock glare ice track blown shut and as alluded to earlier the ice under various stands of evergreen. Proven dogs will work through these with minimal delays,blowing and drifting snow has shut down my best stuff.Some may get stuck, and some will back out eventaully, these will be looking for a new job. The question was loosing a jumped cat, and I am with Twist on this one. Certainly not saying I got the best , compared to alot they probably aren't even very good, if they weren't showing me fur I would be in the classified section.


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You guys just need to hunt dogs like i hunt. They run like banshees through the brush looking for the track often givining mouth and when one of em finally finds the track and gives the "i got it!" bark they all start barking and haul butt to the dog that has the track and the its a solid roar until a lose and the the whole process starts over but i never have a dead spot by the sounds of it.

I'm guessing ten banshee would be awesome here the first season. With all the females stretched the screaming banshee would be chasen coyote the next year!! Lol

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I just only have one banshee but he sure is a mouthy pup. He is getting tuned up for sure. There will always be those struggles and we'll always voice our opinions right or wrong. Until the dogs talk to me and tell me what's up I don't know a whole lot. Like some have mentioned if fur ain't being caught move on. Or figure out the problem. Lots of things can slow down and screw up a race a person just has to find what works

mark wrote:You guys just need to hunt dogs like i hunt. They run like banshees through the brush looking for the track often givining mouth and when one of em finally finds the track and gives the "i got it!" bark they all start barking and haul butt to the dog that has the track and the its a solid roar until a lose and the the whole process starts over but i never have a dead spot by the sounds of it.

-------------- Mark I know you are hunting a better pack than we are. However believe our pack would sound a bunch like yours, never short on barking with these young dogs in the pack, most of the time they are barking on cat scent& we have seen enough to know they are working the old stuff& not just smelling ass most of the time. Could they bark a little less at times? YES. I am calling dead spots those areas where
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the barking comes to a halt & by seeing, or watching the garmin dogs move a hundred yards or more, before the band starts up load & exciting. Know this would drive some hunters nuts. But, I thought hound hunting was hearing the canyons ring, of coarse we do catch some & lose some, but we enjoy hunting, for us that is what it/s all about.-------Bon Plott, you have some nice looking Plotts never hunted a plott, too old to start looking in the classifieds, but think it would be nice to try one of those plotts. Good hunting to you. AL

Al,i would hunt 20 dogs if it was feasable cuz i hunt for the sound of the race and to make pups. Are you able to receive videos on your cell phone or do you have an Email address?