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wvplott wrote:

J.R. wrote:guess i miss read his post, but he never said that steve was breeding buckskin plotts he said that he heard of a guy in canada that was breeding buckskin plotts couldnt remeber his name

JR... seeing as how this thread is titled "Ursus Plotts", and the founder of the line is from Canada, it would be fair to assume that the person in question is Steve Mohr...especially when you consider the fact that Steve has been accused/attacked on the issue of breeding buckskins for years on multiple message boards by a handful of people.

Catch,
Your statement leads me to believe that you know for a fact that Steve Mohr was/is breeding Buckskins. Personally, I could care less if the man has bred buckskins. If he did, I would be willing to bet that they WERE NOT registered. If you were witness to the breeding process, and were witness to the registration process... you should contact the registry in which the cross/es were registered and file an ethics complaint. Understand that, unless you are able to provide concrete evidence to state your case, your claim will not hold water. If the information you have is second hand (and it would be unless you witnessed the breeding/registration take place), you should probably keep your comments to yourself.

A friend PMed me and pointed something out. You will bet? Ok Ernie, Polly and Muley. Since you are up to date please tell me about the two dogs. He pointed something else out also. No, it was not Storm I sold back because I didn't like. I was a dog called Spin, one of he last true Ursus dog. Dennis had a pup out of Polly, I heard he culled it because of lack of hunting ability. I wonder if there are other reasons?

Polly was a buckskin, that part is correct. She came after the show people that don't like solids, especially buckskins, banned them in 1978. Unfortunately she was never bred over here. But she was in Sweden and produced some outstanding pups. I believe the pups are registered with both the AKC and the WKC. She was a heck of a good dog and it was a severe loss to the Breed and the Line because some people believe in Breeding by and for color.

I had two different pups out of her litter mates. Can't remember what happened to one of them, but the other was a above average dog that also produced a few good pups. None through any buckskins. Most were blanket backs. But buckskins aren't what's outlawed. That's a color. All colors are legal. The solids is what's banned. Considering all the solid blacks that are being registered today and are "overlooked" because black dogs show better, not to mention all the pups born black that should be culled if you promote the ban like Worthlesston does, a light colored solid is no different except to the few that believe we should breed for color and not performance.

Any solid born up to the end 1978 could of been registered. Some of those lived and produced pups up to 12 years later. So you don't have to take your boots off Worthlesston, that's 1990/91. It matters not if Muley was a buckskin or not. That dogs was born before the ban. Solids go clear back to the first 5 dogs brought over from Germany in 1750. Two of them were buckskins. Without them, the Plott breed wouldn't exsist today. I, myself, owned a registered buckskin I bought from Dee DeMoss. He was a heck of a good dog that died far to young. To bad I didn't know then what I know now. I'd of had that dog collected and it would still be legal today. Now ain't that ironic.

After 8 pages of nothing but compliments about how good many of the Ursus dogs are. And knowing full well that what was bred in the past is one of the most important things that produces that kind of performance. Whether a solid was used or not, don't you feel just a bit stupid trying to condemn what you yourself has in most of your dogs and the one's those others were complimenting.

If you don't like me or Steve Mohr. If you think that our desire to breed for performance, and performance only, means we'll do it by breeding illegal solids, banned by the show people. Then take your gun and cull those damn dogs you got from us, if you think their so illegal, and go get something else and quit crying like a spoiled brat. You, and only you, are responsible for the many reasons you'll never own a Ursus dog from us again. So just go get one of those bred for color you seem to be so partial too.

Well thank you for the essay Dennis. You sound just like a politician. Well there you have it wvplott, right from the horse's mouth. Buckskins were breed and papered. Just as I thought you would Dennis, you come a running and cleared up that rumor. You said Polly (she was a buckskin, you said that) was not breed over here. So are you saying Steve did not send Zues to Joann and Andy to breed Polly? You are also saying you got dogs from her litter mates and not Polly? Stand up and walk Dennis. UKC has standards Dennis, when you register a dog with UKC you are saying UKC can trust you when papering a dog. If you can't live with the rules UKC has put fourth, go else where. One more thing. If I wanted Ursus dog it would not be hard to get one. But why would I need any? I'm happy with what I'm hunting now. The list is long from the Banned Ursus list, and all are the same. Anyone that wants to breed his own way or to dogs Steve doesn't like, they get banned. You have never read anyone complaining they "got banned"! Big deal! When I buy a dog I will do with it as I please!

Take care and good luck!

Catch, sounds like u might b a lil jealous of steve n his dogs he is breeding, u don't know what ur missn out on.

And who keeps spinning things to make others look bad for their own benefit. You came on here to highjack a topic so you could make yourself appear better and more knowledgeable than all. Apparently in your determination to do so you don't mind showing all of your inability to comprehend anything, including the facts. Even when I presented them to you in simple words. So let me explain it so it's even easier to understand, just for you. Hell yes "buckskins" are in the Ursus Plotts. They were bred into them from 1750 to 1978, or shortly after. All Plotts have them in the ancestry. If you don't like "buckskins" in your dogs pedigrees, don't own a Plott. So there you go. Once again you, a person that has absolutely nothing to do with them, can try to once again scab a little creditability and notoriety off a topic that is titled "Ursus Plotts" using rumors and third party BS to tell all how much superior you are in everything you do.

Dennis I see you didn't want to answer my question. We both know the facts, I know you know, and you know I know. Dennis, I love arguing with you, you make me look so smart!


Turn the paige, ya that is it. I do know what I'm missing guy, that is why I went my own way.


Take care guys, my point has been proven.

Wow! Seems there is a lot of shady things happening with this program. I've been doing some research of my own, an have had several call an talk this line. Seems everbodys is on the same page about these being good dogs. But one question to those of u that seem to no Steve so well " y did he leave the states"?

Backwoods1, Steve has a dual citizenship. He maintained his US citizenship while also becoming a citizen of Canada. He went to BC to promote his career when a job came open that he would of been crazy to pass. It was good enough he was able to retire early and devote all his time to proving out the dogs he breeds. And the only "shady" things going on is we didn't recognize what Worthlesston was before he got dogs from us. That has to be the worst mistake I have ever made with dogs and I've made some dandies in my day. I have little doubt Steve would agree whole heartedly.

Worthlesston, since you think I've been making you appear so "smart" and you highjacked this topic so you could appear to be so much better in everything, it brings up a question I've been wanting to ask so I can learn from a "all knowing". I could care less of the dog, but the actions you took still astound me.

Not long ago you posted a picture on the NPHA site of three dogs treeing on a Juniper tree. It's was a good picture of them too. In the crouch of the tree was a dog you could see just about every inch of. On and on you went about how good they were and by appearance in the picture, rightly so. It was going well for you until you were "reminded" that that was the NPHA site you were on and they had just called for inspections of three dogs, leading to the suspension of the papers on one, that looked just like the one in the crouch of the tree. A solid black dog without a visible brindle mark one. A dog exactly the same as a buckskin, only black. The dogs that started all the "buckskin" controversy to surface again.

Now.... like I said, I could care less about a dog in a picture. It looked like it was doing it's job and that's all that matters. But immediately after you were "reminded" of what you had just done, you switched the pictures from color to black and white. Now I never thought you could make a dog appearing to be totally black any blacker. But I'll be dang, you went and found a way. But I still haven't figured out why you did such a "smart and all knowing" thing like that on the NPHA site. The site of the Organization that changed the Standards to what "you say" we should all follow so religiously and righteously.

That's not the story here in the states, I no there is always to sides but steves old partner has made it clear why he left.

Dennis don't try to pull me into the quick sand with you. Why was it such a big mistake to sell me dogs. You took the money and ran. I paid for, plus some for every dog I got. In return, you guys got dogs to breed around. Looks like a good deal for you. Since you always are commenting about my abilities, that is what it is all about. You can't stand that I can do things with dogs that you can't, and my abilities really bug you.

As far as the dog on the NPHA site. I didn't take the picture down and replace it with a black and white on. Go back and read why I put a black and white picture up. The pup was breed by a friend and sold to another friend in Montana. He had two many dogs to train at one time so I got the dog. Yes he was a spectacular dog, but got himself killed shortly after those pictures. His name was Havoc, the name Cody gave him. He was a black dog with brindle trim. If you like I can have 20 people that has hunted with dog verify the dogs color. Not a single person on the NPHA site commented on the color other than you. You are getting desperate guy.


I have nothing to defend myself against, so this is my last post.

Backwoods1; What's your point? ... what's with this "bull shit" guessing game you are trying to start with regards Steve's personal life? ... You are starting to sound like Worthlesston ... you would be better to stick to discussing Bear Dogs ...........

Bob, I agree it's none of his business. Actually, it was way out of bounds. But still, if it would be told it is a great story to show all what kind of man Steve Mohr really is with anything he does. Few are man enough to equal what he did in this matter. I know I can only be thankful life didn't test me to this extreme.

Backwoods1, Steve has had many hunting partners in his years, but obviously the one your talking about hunted with him very little or he definitely would of heard this story. But of course, when your on top there's always those looking to try and bring you down to their level instead of working for success themselves. May I suggest you call him if it means that much to you. Brian has his number.

Worthlesston, Yes, I know you'll run now that I'm after you. Simply because it's so easy to show all what you are really like. You came after me for violating some show dog Standard with hear say and third party BS. I have said it before and I'll say it again. I have hunted and bred dogs with many of the Legends of the Plott Breed. They all produced dogs a little different according to their own likings. But they all had one very important thing in common. One they followed to the letter and taught me to follow it to the letter also. The founders of the Breed wrote the Standards they wished all to follow when the Breed became such in 1946. Those Standards definitely have preferences. Anything but what they wished the Breed to be is a fault. But all those preferences promoted one thing, performance. Any time anything is bred otherwise violates what the founders intended the great Plott Breed to be. That's my "Standard", just as it is and was to all those legendary Breeders that produced many of the great dogs of performance we know today. And one of those is Steve Mohr.

You walked into quicksand yourself when you started quoting Standards and tried to use them against me. I know you have not a clue what a off colored Plott is and why it's called that. Off colored Plotts are solids or dogs primarily solid. The dogs you brag about has being black with bridle trim are off colored Plotts. But your definition of trim is a strip of hair anywhere that's not black. The definition of brindling is "the dog has a stripping or streaking effect". Black with brindle trim does not fit that description. The key words is "the dog". That was how your precious show standard was written in 1978 and it wasn't changed for many years. Now I won't go into those solid blacks you do have or have some sort of "breeding rights" too, has you call it. They matter not to me because you violated your precious show Standard way before they even became dogs worth mentioning.

Your precious show dog Standards say NO SOLIDS. You have admitted your dogs are black with brindle trim. The vast majority of those black with brindle trim dogs are born black. It matters not what they developed later. The words NO SOLIDS ALLOWED leaves no interpretation for what they develop later. But you paper them anyways. No different than registering a light colored solid you call a buckskin. I can find a different colored hair on any "buckskin" to fall into your interpretation of your precious Standards you use on your "Black Labs". But yet your the all knowing, greatest of all and who am I. But I do know one thing, your a two faced ??? when YOU start saying others violate some Standard you don't even follow yourself. My suggestion to you, don't throw rocks when you live in a glass house.

The mistake I made with you was not selling you dogs. No problem there at all. Those all died because you underfeed them or burned them out with some toxic food formula you concocted that put them into convulsions or destroyed their livers so badly they either died or had to be put down. Of course, since your the one and only, greatest of all, that would be Steve's or I's fault. The mistake I made with you was to think you'd be one to help with anything, especially produce and prove out dogs.

You bred two crosses. Both crosses Steve suggested you make and you did. The rest....... Do you want me to go into your brilliancy of breeding three males to one female. Now that was a classic, but definitely not your "best" attempt that went bad. That's what kind of "astonishing" Breeder you are.

Your abilities to prove out dogs was shown to me when you left a dog to die on the mountain while you went to drink beer with your buddies so you can tell them all what a great hunter and breeder of dogs you are. Two days later you drive home over 3 hours away and still did little more that run up and down the road once or twice to see if he had came out yet. And then, didn't even attempt to have anyone else even look for him for 5 days until I shamed the hell out of you. That's how I remember your great abilities to train and prove out dogs.

Come on Greater Than Thou, don't leave let. You want to slander Steve and I with third party BS. I have 5 years worth left to tell of the most incredible and appalling years I ever witnessed in my life with what you did with dogs and hunting.

Oh..... that picture and your words that went with it on the NPHA site. It was great. You finally helped out with something. With those that are fighting to get a vote on the solids taken to overturn your precious show dog standards of 78, it has now become the laughing stock of the buckskin issue. Those pictures and your words will be priceless to show the ludicrously of those 78 Standards down the road. Some might say your now the "poster boy" of the "black lab" issue.

Dennis, where do you come up with this stuff. On the UKC registration paper there is a box you check for Black w/ Brindle trim. Call UKC and take your complaint to them. I'm doing just as they ask.

The dog I lost. Yes that is true, but you have your facts wrong on the rest of it. There were no buddies Dennis. I was hunting with a (one) guy from Eastern Idaho named Darrus. He doesn't drink and neither do I. Your facts are wrong guy. Have you ever seen me have a drink when we were hunting? Never! We did look for the dog. We went into town at dark to get gas and searched all night. I did leave, and you went back twice that week (I did appreciate) and could not find him, and a friend went once that lived in Council. You, I and another friend went back, with no success. I did learn one thing, don't use Tracker colors because the signal is so strong you can't locate, and the batteries don't last long. That solves that issue.

The three dogs I got from you. The first one I paid for. that litter was culled by myself and Steve. You know this was done because the lack of ability. The replacement pup was culled along with every other pup but two, because the lack of ability. The stud fee pup I got from you I culled. His feet looked like he had ski's and I didn't want that.

As far as the Toxic comment. I don't have clue what you are babbling about, but whatever.

Move on Dennis, I have nothing to hide.

I said there is always two sides to a story an I've only heard one! But a man an his word an ethics means a lot about his way of business an dogs to me!!!! Seems there are a lot of new members that have joined for this blog.

yes there are a few people that joined this site just to stand up for a guy that has helped them out in the dog department, most of them stuck to the plott sites, but decided to check out this nice little topic,

over 4k views on this topic, alot of lookers!!!!

i had a question for catch, i know you first posted about 1/2 of the ursus dogs work out, i was wondering if that was dogs you got direct from steve?, or dogs that were breed by others choosing what crosses they thought were worth trying and had the 50% turn out.