BigGameHoundsmen.com

Yard Dog wrote:I am well on the way to catchin my 30 for the year and I don't think I have treed the same cat twice. I work full time and have 3 kids. have you ever thought of venturing out from under your rock and looking for a better place to cut roads or walk canyons? sounds like you don't have the drive it takes to get er done

Congratulaions, You must truley be the "Real Deal" maybe even the second comming of "Ike". I, like many others on this post am just a mer mortal. Living under my "Rock", never venturing out, never walking canyons. Yep, you've got me pegged.[/quote]

you ought to come meet me in the middle of the state and go hunting instead of being a dick all the time on my posts. I could show you some areas that still have a few cats left. or you can continue to catch your 5 lions a year and whine about it all year your choice bud. I'm nothing like the Ikenator, my dogs aint no better than the next guy, but I won't settle to catch 5 a year. if it gets that bad I will get out of it. Jared higgins 435-668-0161

timothy wrote:Houndnem Im not banging my head against the wall, you sound like you think the lions are doing fine in Utah. no disrespect intended, do you believe that the lion population is at a sustainable level? And I will get out and hunt some different areas, when I am ready. but being as I have only hunted for one year as Dave has pointed out a few times I like to stick to the areas I already know, call it what you will that is fine. But I cannot afford to drive all over the state hunting areas I have never been.

The lions and the quality of lions has really went down hill in the last decade, but there are still some really great places to chase lions if you spend the fuel and the time. good luck to ya.

houndnem wrote:you ought to come meet me in the middle of the state and go hunting instead of being a dick all the time on my posts. I could show you some areas that still have a few cats left. or you can continue to catch your 5 lions a year and whine about it all year your choice bud. I'm nothing like the Ikenator, my dogs aint no better than the next guy, but I won't settle to catch 5 a year. if it gets that bad I will get out of it. Jared higgins 435-668-0161

Having a differance of opinion is not being a "dick", I am sure you don't agree with everything I post.. And someday I may have to take you up on that offer.. I may be whining but when you have grown up hunting certain areas, you kind of get attached to them. Its like having a favorite fishing hole, you will alway remember how good it was. I have a hard time driving halfway across the state to hunt when there is prime country right here, just not many cats. I do hope the areas you hunt don't get as bad as ours.

Hornocker's study was the prerunner study for Mt. lion couple it with today's technology and any hole's that were in it, will be filled with the GPS collar. Lion biology will become clear as time goes by. I know one thing for sure killing females isn't good for a sustainable population of any species, barren or not, no one can tell by looking at a female if she has young or is bred. It's not hard to walk away, the only reasons for not is ignorance, first time hunter, or money. Biology play's no part in those decisions. The only thing that is saving populations is the lack of snow and this lion hunting page will show it as the sun comes out and the snow leaves. I will bet that if you look at take records after this year in the west that you will see an increase of harvested lion's, based only on the amount of snow storms that hit the west simple as that. I see the amount of bare grounders on here most can't help themselves they have to post pictures, the only problem is there is always snow in the for ground. You can't manage lion's off of a big game objective... Deer, elk, sheep. Predator control is a quick fix that does not address the big picture. Do I believe in predator management? Hell yes!, But at what cost. Do these animals belong to all of us. Is it right to close a season with tom lion's left over when the harvest objective hasn't been met. Or should they be managed like Elk and deer with tom and female tag's issued? Things can keep going like they are and public sentiment will grow to the point that there will be no management. Think not! Look at CA, OR, WA... all are different, but the out comes the same...

sourdough

I think this has been the most interesting thread I've read in a very long time. And the best aspects of the thread have been the informative posts by catdogs and Brent Sinclaire. Some of the best information I've been able to get...from any source Thanks to the level-headed catdogs and Mr. Sinclaire.

Ken

Sorry,

I moved this offline for a bit until I could get to read all 10 pages.. (actually I only made it to 7 pages and gave up..)

I appoligize about it, I haven't noticed it and I got a couple emails about it turning into a Pissing match. I normally dump pissing matches that resort to Name calling.

As a General rule when I start getting Messages about People calling each other (rough names) and stuff on a thread and I look at that thread and it has 10 pages... Then I normally assume that its has a pissing match involved and is a cage fight.

Anyways sorry for having this post offline.
Buddy

This issue of killing females is a time bomb and just sitting there and ticking away...
and when it goes...so will lion hunting. Here's why:

I live in a state where the anti's are very adamant and very flush with cash. Their number one priority at this time, is to outlaw all lion hunting and it is a national movement. The female issue will be the straw that broke the camel's back, I will bet the farm on it. Orphaned young kittens is the real reason, not simply killing females. The state of Colorado has adopted the policy that if the female harvest exceeds 30% of the total, then the quota gets reduced in that unit, or units. According to the lion research experts on both sides of the fence, if the 30% female harvest is exceeded, then the lion population will go down. Yes, legal is still legal...all day long, but something very important to think about, are those starving, orphaned, young kittens and what their long term loss equates to.

Plain and simple - in some units in order to control the population, females must be harvested. In other units where the lion population needs to increase, then no females should be taken. Somewhere in between lies most of the lion units, the units where the lion population needs to be stable. The 30% female harvest will maintain a stable population. So the real problem is which females to kill. Obviously the ones without kittens or at least the younger kittens. The hard part is knowing the females, by sight and territory. It takes a lot of ground time to identify a "harvestable" female under the above terms. The vast majority of people with hounds just do not have the time to learn a lion population like that and as such, should not be harvesting females in units where the lion population is stable or increasing. They should go to units where the lion population is being managed for reduction.

The flip side is just go ahead and harvest toms only and watch the poplution increase, the trophy quality go down and the Gov't hunters move in for population control.


We need to treat this female killing issue as if we were walking barefoot on broken glass...very carefully. The antis have enough ammo as is, without us spoon feeding them the keys to their success...and our own demise.

Policing ourselves here, has worked beyond the expectations of both the DOW and the anti's. Some of the units around here have even seen a INCREASE in the lion harvest quota because of it. A couple of us diehards are continually calling our biologist in order to monitor the current female harvest number and spread the word to all lion hunters we know. It is an absolute wonder what like minded people can accomplish when they put their heads together for a common cause. Christ's sakes, if we can do it, anyone can. Unite, spread the word, talk about it and explain why...if for no other reason than to preverve lion hunting w/hounds as we now know it.

Lion tracker, some good common sense and advice, well said, some great food for thought by all.

Whew, I'm wore plumb out from reading all this female killin stuff. Somewhere in the first few pages the question was for who never has killed a female or had one killed over their dogs raise your hand, well my hand is in the air. Never have and never will. Not that I am some kind of angel, I just remember the advice given to me when I was given my first hound pup. It made sense then, and still does today. After the man put the pup in my box he said these words to me, I listened to him, because he had at that time been chasing hounds for a good 40 plus years. He said this " this is a great way of life, you can have many good years doing it, when you start doing it for money, laws will be broken, and females will die, it's as simple as that". His advice, not mine. I have just found it to hold true for many years.

Im really excited about the positive feedback from this thread, im new to running hounds so I for one have picked up qiute a bit of good info from this. I plan on attending the next RAC meetings for my region. I hope we can count on the rest of you attending as well. If we stand in numbers we can make things better for ourselves.

Man Oh Man, wow. This is an interesting thread. A hole lot of complaining and finger pointing. Now picture this the antis move into your state put a measure for the public to ban hunting Bear,cougar and bobcat and it passes. So your a guy that wont quit hunting dogs but now you can only hunt coons and when the cougar population goes out of control your state comes up with a cougar pilot program. I just read a guy say he would quit hunting hounds if he only caught 5 lions a year
You want to see some real Bull $$!t click on this link at Washington cougar pilot program, and then ask your self if you really got it that bad. look at the kill quotas thats for the whole state and every guy with hounds puts in for a tag and it takes three to four years to get drawn. This could happen in any state, I would count my blessings instead of complaining.

http://apps.leg.wa.gov/wac/default.aspx?cite=232-28-285

I HAVE HUNTED WITH THIS HOUNDEM KID, IF YOU WANT TO SEE A CAT IN A TREE HE THE MAN TO GO WITH

StrawberryMt wrote:

Catch wrote:Oh my hell. After reading this, I had to make sure you guys live in the United States Of America. If this did happen in America, The land Of The Free, when does anyone have the right to criticize in this type of manner towards someone that has acted with in his legal right????? This type of criticism is harassment and a felony in most states. If possible and state law allows it, I would slap someone with a law suite, a felony and end this BS. If you don't like how the law reads, change it. Only Anti's and environmentalist act with this type of behavior. JMO

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Sackett wrote:

StrawberryMt wrote:

Catch wrote:Oh my hell. After reading this, I had to make sure you guys live in the United States Of America. If this did happen in America, The land Of The Free, when does anyone have the right to criticize in this type of manner towards someone that has acted with in his legal right????? This type of criticism is harassment and a felony in most states. If possible and state law allows it, I would slap someone with a law suite, a felony and end this BS. If you don't like how the law reads, change it. Only Anti's and environmentalist act with this type of behavior. JMO

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Buddyw,

You should have left this in the cage!

Ignorance and stupidity can only get you so far in life, The laws says you can ground sluice a flock of quail as long as you don't kill more than the bag limit. A stream may have a 10 fish per day limit and a twenty in possession, so you go out in the morning catch your ten and then go out in the afternoon and catch ten. You're within the law, right! But because you can't see beyond yourself you do this every day, filling that freezer until the season ends. Then the season begins. Man, there sure is a lot of fish left. Out with the old, in with the new! What amazes me is how many that openly defend this type of behavior. Kill away, stumblebums!

sourdough

Ignorance and stupidity can only get you so far in life, The laws says you can ground sluice a flock of quail as long as you don't kill more than the bag limit. A stream may have a 10 fish per day limit and a twenty in possession, so you go out in the morning catch your ten and then go out in the afternoon and catch ten. You're within the law, right! But because you can't see beyond yourself you do this every day, filling that freezer until the season ends. Then the season begins. Man, there sure is a lot of fish left. Out with the old, in with the new! What amazes me is how many that openly defend this type of behavior. Kill away, stumblebums!

sourdough[/quote]

I agree. If everybody acted like some of these idiots there wouldn't be any cats left for anyone to run. Legal is not the same as ethical in some cases.

too much effort to put in the xtra time to look for a tom I guess.

oh ya. The guys saying they kill females.. there were a couple. How about posting your name with your female killing pride.