BigGameHoundsmen.com

Tim,
As far as a dog that will turn a track around, the best I have ever seen came out of Glen Dotsons Pebbles. I have a dog out of Pebbles and a dog named Duke that Charlie Bailey owned. I can't say for sure that it is a trait for that line but I can say the one I got is unbelievable. You wouldn't believe some of the stories if I told them. Not only will she turn the track around but she comes back sounding like she is jumped. It is quite impressive, and it brings everyone with her. When the bobcat gets to circling she stays right with it. If the rest of the dogs keep heading around the loop, she will just bark more and louder to get them to come to her. It is somewhat dangerous but she is always right when she does it. She isn't fast, not very cold nosed, babble mouthed, annoying dog. But boy she does a good job. This dog is old now but for a dog that strikes, trails, makes the corners, picks up looses, locates, and flat blow the top out of a tree she is pretty damn good. She has her down sides also and when they come across the road she runs middle of the pack. If you ever saw her turn a track around you would be impressed. It is done with as much confidence as a dog can posses.

As far as a cold nosed dog that knows when to run with his head up- the best breeding I have hunted you and Dewey have also I believe.

I guess in a way I am bragging about that dog. But she does most of what your asking. I don't know how, maybe she is just that smart. I wish I could get one with her confidence to replace her. She just needs to not open so much and a colder nose wouldn't hurt either.

ONLY SAW 1 DOG MY ENTIRE LIFE THAT WAS SO GOOD IN ALL THOSE DEPARTMENTS THAT IT WAS EMBARASSING TO ALL OTHER DOGS. IT WAS AN ENGLISH REDTICK OUT OF A PKC CHAMPION COONDOG NAMED GOLD NUGGET KENTUCKY LOTTO. BOTTOM SIDE WAS ONEY BRED. I HAD TO CREDIT THE ABILITY TO JIM CHAFFINS LINE OF DOGS BECAUSE I HUNTED WITH LOTS OF ONEY BLOOD AND THEY WERENT LIKE THIS DOG. THAT WAS 15 YEARS AGO I SOLD THAT DOG AND STILL HAVE THIS SICK FEELING IN MY GUT. MIGHT HAVE JUST BEEN A FREAK ONCE IN A LIFETIME DOG, NEVER OWNED OR SEEN ANOTHER SINCE.

When you find that lion hunting style in a bobcat dog that can get it done consistently, let me know! A great bobcat dog and a great lion dog are two different animals. My point being you want to be able to get that cat jumped at some point so how cold of trail do you want them hounds to run? I will admit that some of those cold tracks can be up and running in no time just based on a cat’s nature, but there are far more tracks that can take you on a hike that never comes to an up and running race. If you’re not concerned about numbers then there are several strains of dogs out there that will foot the bill. If I didn’t like running bobcat on an occasion I would brake my hounds plum off of them because they can be a pain in the ash when trying to get a lion started while free casting and hunting through the country. I have hounds that have caught me several bobcats, dogs that can locate in big timber as well as run with their head up when time permits, but bobcat dog I do not have. I sure don’t know how to put it all in one package or I would say I’m your guy.

sourdough

Tim Pittman wrote:I'm still waiting for some more answers to the the questions.As far as cold nosed debating,I think there are some fellas on here from the desert who can vouch for what type and level of cold nose I expect from a dog.That being said,I'm looking for consistency in the traits I inquired about-cold nose,pickup the head as the track progresses,stay tight to the track[not running and looking===LOOSES] have the ability and breeding to be locate and tree dogs.
We have dogs like this once in while up here in the Northwest,but as I said I'm opened minded to colors,different regions,papered or grade.If there are dogs that consistantly show these traits-I want some of it.

I'd like to throw you another curve-ANYBODY HAVE DOGS WHO CONSISTANTLY,TURN THEMSELVES AROUND OR KNOW IF THEY'RE BACKWARDS?
Tim

you know Tim first off i think the american houndsmen of today have stopped working togather and become competitive to the point that they are hurting themselves in alot of ways. one is in the breeding department. coonhunters are so focused on a name and a money earning stud dog. that they don't look towards the improvement of the breed. it's a similiar situation for biggame hounds. one or to guys are breeding for one ideal and another group for another and so is every one else. this causes a fragmentation of the types and abilities. these hounds have no standards to live up to or the breeders to work towards. everyone has heard wonders about ol so and so's bloodline and started looking for it only to find out the only thing left is a few dogs with a eigth or less and who knows what traits the other seven eights carried. we would be welll of to break the hounds up into breeds based on use and type and forget color. thats one of the most misleading ways to breed period. you can find every phenotype possible in each breed but people will be breeding opposites just because they are the same color. when a litter of pups come out every shape and size how can we expect their hunting traits to be consistent? as far as your question about back trailing I don't have a real problem with it and my hounds usually have it straight before i get there. not allways. I'd love if we had better consistency in our hounds myself. maybe a little more thought on those who breeds part would help a great deal. or a cat hunters alliance that worked on getting the wrinkles ironed out to develop a hound that worked better in a wider range of areas. I feel it would have to be a large group with a wide geographical distribution.

Dad's Dogboy wrote:

Tim, you mentioned that you might want a Hound more like a "Lion" Hound. I take it that you mean a Hound who is a more methodical Hound who follows a track more closely? We would think that for a Bobcat, a Hound who will dirft the the Track forward and find where the Cat is going would be a better fit than a Hound who is telling you where the Cat has been.


I think for me that paragraph right there says it all. Excellent!


I love to watch a hound cold trail out and old lion track then jump it and tree it. I mean that is what I dream of and the music that goes with it. But for bobcat I know when they are working a bobcat like they do a lion and gnerally it doesn't have to be that old becasue bobcats in this country don't leave much scent. Then I better be content to watch the trailing because the catching is going to be mighty slim. This is the primary reason I run a combination of dogs in my pack. Occasionaly as was said you will get the whole deal in one package but they don't come in bunches like grapes.

I also have noted over the past few years I have gravitated more and more to the drifting fast cut and slash type dogs. When I get some that have the nose to hold the basic line but the drive and sense to get the cat! get the cat! get the cat!!! I seem to fair a little better.


I can tolerate a slow trailing dog as long as there is nothing else that can get it up and trail out ahead of him, but if there is I don't need him anyway.

Ok,I admit this was a mean thing to do.But fellas,let me name you guys a few names to Bobcat hunters who have owned or do own the kind of dogs I'm refering to.Dewey Walton,Jc Freeman,Jim howell,Zip Fendrich,Tom Barnes,Don Gilbert and there are some others I'm missing.The problem is consistency in producing these type of dogs.
Take for instance,my Suziedog[dewey,zip,jc breeding compiled for the last 30+years]is an awesome rig dog and locate treedog,could be better on the corners and used to get a little sticky at times,but for 2 1/2 years old and being my lead dog-I'll keep her.
Lacey almost 3 runnindog walker cross,not good off the rig starts cold tracks on the ground well,opens and moves acold track as fat as some dogs go right before a jump.But,over shoots the corners a little,picks up looses well,her locate and treeing is questionable[she doesn't tree much,but seems to know when a track ends].
As far as the rest of my potlickers go,tehy have some strong points and weak ones-I'm evaluating still.
This is an interesting discussion,I personally have owned track staddlers,cut and slashers,tree dogs[not being locaters] locaters[not being tree barkers]etc.you guys know how it is.
As I said in my first post,I believe it's a combination of dogs who work together who are the most succesfull.But I think there has to be anchor['s] to every pack.
I GUESS I'M LOOKING FOR ANOTHER ANCHOR???
Tim 541-912-6464

Oh, so you're saying you need a bluetick.
I don't think your meanness is what is limiting the responses. I think it's because your wanting someone to put their finger on something nobody can guarantee. Even in the tightest lines there is too much diversity even in each litter. My opinion is you're gonna have to hunt around for the dog within a certain line of dogs to find what you want.

I think the problem with naming a certain bloodline is that for every great dog I have seen, I have seen several out of the same breeding that I wouldn't give a nickel for. So you put yourself out there and others may think that breeding is junk.

The new anchor in my pack I purchased as a started dog last year. At two years old she was cold trailing and catching (by herself) tracks that the rest of my dogs couldn't get out of the road. She has good track speed and will gear down and grind out tracks if she needs to. She makes the corners and runs a cat well. Excellent locate AND tree dog. She is probably overall the best dog I have owned. The guy I got her from has had 4 of these dogs and said he has had nothing but good luck with them. The bad: she isn't the greatest at turning tracks around. She isn't quick to go backwards, but she has a couple times. She is a redtick from Leroy Penny.

Come on Cobalt you're spoiling my fun.No just kidding,I'll give you another call if you don't mind me shooting the bull a little more.You might have something there on me trying another blue dog.
George I'd like to hear more about the redtick.
Mike leonard-are you having as good as success with straight Nance or the old blood crossed on the Nance?
As to all you guys down in Arizona me and Dewey are planning atrip next March after cat season closes here.Would like to come down and run some bobs,what's the licsense requirements down their nowdays,Dewy has been down their for quite awhile?
Tim 541-912-6464

who's shawns blue dog?

Its Shawn Hendricks blue dog that he got from me and wants you to hunt for him.

tim, we have a dog once in a while that is bad about taking the wrong end of a track and sometimes a young dog but all of our dogs take it the right way everytime. if it is hot like just crossed the road and we drop the box and they go the wrong way it will only be a min and they wil be back and on the right end. some of my older dogs will not even go 50 yards on a smoking hot track the wrong way.

what i have seen latley is i have dogs that will run a track through a block and you put back in and they run the same track again and again and again. I have never had such a problem with my dogs running a covered track. not to mention one covered by them.

I think short tail hunters and lion/bear hunters like a different kind of dog. I am not saying either one is better but they are different.

I like a dog that if i go into 100 thousand acres and there is one track I wont to be able to get him not drive around until it gets fresher.

My father tells me of days back in the day when there was not alot of game you may only find a track or two in a week of hunting if your dog could not take it you were just burring time and gas.

he also said the dogs would stay with the game and curl up under a bush to sleep at night and when they go up they would start the track again.

I think someone would cull or shock a dog bac to the truck with this kind of determination these days. no one wants to wait on a dog to trail they all want a barn burrning race as soon as the tail gate drops.

I own both trail dogs and cast dogs and they both have a place but when i am trophy hunting the trail dog is what I need and use.

I think the real answer you are looking for is not out there Tim as for one breed or strain being the outstanding bobcat dog, yes some breeds and strains seem to produce more consistant than others on bobcats but I truely think they are out there in every breed just have to go through the hard knocks and find them. My advice to most hunters is if a hound alone can consistantly put cats in the tree then they are worth adding to a pack. I am not saying that a pack of cat dogs that each have thier own thing to contribute will not work as it surely does for alot of great hunters but if you are running a few dogs that can get it done from truck to tree by themselves I think your odds start to look alot better and when I say a pack to me that is a total of no more than 4 dogs as in our area if you start to run anymore than that things start to get pretty messed up 2 to 3 is the majic number here. A person has to remember that not all dogs are cut out to be great bobcat dogs they are few and far between in every breed and strain. jmo later, Andy

Tim have you talked with Mark Armstrong lately? He bought that Judy dog from Jeff Allen last fall. She was seven and a finished dirt lion dog. He has her realy getting after those bobs over there. I know she is straight old strain but i don't know her exact breeding. I think had she been raised there she would probley be a do it all dog. she has made a 180 degree turn around from desert hunting to deep brush hunting. worth looking into

It's time for me to get my two cents in. I asked Tim to post this, to see what we would get. A lot of good thoughts. I like what I hunt and they get the job done. I am always looking for a better dog or breed, I am running old stile walkers, running dog cross with walkers and Leopard cur there is a reason for each one. As said before there is no dog that has it all. I have owned a lot of cat dogs that did a good job but I think that I have only owned 5 top cat dogs in 45 years with only one being almost perfect. A lot of the cat dogs in Oregon go back to her. She was Pee Wee great granddaughter of Finley River Chief. I feel what I want out of cat dogs does not come in one dog. Dogs that move a tract fast have to have there head up, take the scent out of the air and off the brush, but they need to be able to put there nose down and grub a track if needed. They have to be able to run all tracks no matter how cold, that's easy if they don't smell of the same spot twice and never come back to a track. They can not run and cut looking for a cat. They need to be within 5 feet of that track at all times. They need to locate a tree which is the hardest to find. MOST tree dogs can not locate a cat. This means bobcats I don't run that trash that most people call cat hunting. A dog does not have to be perfect or even close for me to hunt it but it can not take away from the trailing, race or treeing of cats. Most dogs will not go backwards on a hot track but will on a cold track. Ones that turn around on cold tracks are far and few between. They can not bark off track. Preferably only open when they have a clean track. 8 or 10 dogs doing this will move a cold track threw the country so fast that most people thing they have jump when they are really hours behind the track. Tim and I catch a lot of cats but we do not have the populations that a lot of other areas have. On a good snow or a day boxing we will only hit two or three cats but we catch them and they are not hot tracks. I work every cat track I hit, I never call a dog off a cold track. If anything I will get out on foot and help the dogs work it out. I walk hunt my dogs alot.That or hunting off mules is the only way to tell what a dog is really doing. The guys that set in a pickup and listen to there dogs are only making up a story as to whats happening. They my be right or may not be. It takes a lot of years of hunting to really know. The guys that hunt lion in the southwest don't have cat dogs. They may make good cat dogs [bobcat]. They have to be raised on bobcats to be real cat dogs, then you can hunt them on anything and they can do good. My dogs have not been shock on lion's but other than the young ones they do not run them, they won't run coon or bear either and I have not had to break them off. It is how they are raised. I am always looking for a better dog, I will be surprise if I find it. I hope I do. I try dogs from all over looking for the prefect dog. If the dog catches cat and you like it hunt it. If anyone wants to talk dogs you can call. Dewey Walton 541-942-4376