Topper Again/ Centerfire Sampson/ Samson

[festus]

The Topper and Sampson genetics sure are alive and well. The Sampson/Millie cross's have proven to produce top hounds that also produce top hounds. I sold the Ace II dog to Jeff when he was a year old, and the Flirt dog High Desert Hounds now owns to Jeff when she was about two years old. I am working with four littermates right now, that are flat out impressive young hounds, out of Jasper and female named Penny. Jasper and Penny are both out of millie. Jasper being out of the Sampson/ Millie cross and Penny out of a cross made with Jeffs Slim dog/Millie. Jeff's Slim dog who's registered name was Center fire Tom was out of Sampson and Rylee. Rylee was a littermate to the Topper again dog Andy has now.

The Slim/Millie cross was the best cross to date out of Millie. The Sampson / Millie cross does not need any introduction as everyone already know's about it.
The Ace II, Newt, Jasper, and Hondo dog's will all carry on the Sampson tradition, most of them have allready proven to pass on Sampson's genetics. There are also some very impressive hounds out of the this last Sampson/Millie cross which will be the last Sampson/Millie cross. I have two males here out this last Sampson/Millie cross I call Buzz, and Buck that are exceptional hounds as well. I also know of a littermate brother to Buzz and Buck that a professional hunter owns and is pretty high.
The same type's of crosses have been made on Topper, and as Mike said the Topper blood is also alive and well with Chassie, Flirt, and There littermate's as well as others.

These are all proven hounds, that are line and family bred that will carry the Sampson, Millie, and Topper blood into the future.
However, like Mike said the Sampson and Topper boats are leaving port soon so if you are looking to breed to either one of them you better not wait to long.

[twist]

Josh, very well said. That is the great stories I like to here about hounds, ones that have WORKED. later, Andy

[high desert hounds]

Josh thanks for the info. I knew you had used the slim dog alot in the past but I was unaware you made the millie cross. In your opinion how were these dogs better than the other crosses? I know slim got killed but are there any dogs carrying the same blood, and if so has anyone tried to go that direction again. Do you recall what slims ped. was? Thanks for the insight. James G. Moore

[sourdough]

High desert, I can’t answer for Festus, but centerfire tom (slim) was out of Sampson and Allen’s Riley, Riley being Topper Again’s liter mate. It is a shame Slim got killed as he was a hell of a producer on just about anything you put him on. One good note is the fact that there is a lot of that blood out there and some good dog men holding onto it and making some impressive strides in their breeding programs. Festus is a great resource on this site when it comes to these Western big game bred Nance dog’s as well as Mike Leonard, and Andy so I hope I helped to answer some of what you wanted to know best of luck.

sourdough

[Dads dogboy]

Well it seems that you all have strayed a little from the original point of this thread. Any Hunter/Hound Breeder who has a Top Proven Producer should get to do a little Chest Thumping...Donnie Gay (8time PRCA World Champion Bull Rider) likes to say "It ain't Bragging iffen You can do it"!

Now about these Nance Hounds...Dad and I are limited to having Hunted one Little Nance Bred Bitch.....But what a NICE Little Bitch!

We took her into a type of envirionment that she was NO WAY Bred to DEAL with and she performed way better than we ever expected!

If she is an example of the type Hounds these Nance Hounds are; "Let me be clear" (as Big N Blue's President likes to say) GUTS, BRAINS, NOSE, BRAINS, Desire to please (Biddability), and HOUND SMARTS are surely not lacking!

This Little Coming 2 yr Old Hound never let any obstacle keep her from trying to be at the front of Bobcat Races in as BAD of country (N. Central FL. Swampland) as can be found in N. America. She was in the Company of some pretty damned nice Hounds and CONTRIBUTED in the terminal ending of 23 Cat Races, lasting from 15 minutes to 2:40, during the month of May and the first two weeks of June this year.

We are not familiar with the Stud Hounds mentioned at the begining of this thread. However if their Genetics produce the type Hound I have talked about above, and whom Big N Blue can be DAMN Proud to own; then either of them or one of their proven offspring (We like to think that proper Genetic Planning make the next Generation better than the last...don't always work out...but will most of the time) will surely be Sireing some Bobcat Hounds worth FEEDING!

JMO
C. John Clay
Dads dogboy

[festus]

James, We bred Millie to Sampson, Topper, and Slim. The Slim cross had a better nose, and are better cold trailing type dogs. We also bred Slim to a high tan dog named Stella, and have been doing some heavy line breeding with this Slim/Stella cross. Like Sourdough said Slim was one hell of a reproducer. We were lucky enough to get a couple of very good crosses with Jeff's Slim dog before he was killed by a lion.

We have also have been using a littermate brother to Millie named Zip in our breeding program. Millie and Zip are out of a dog named Kinkade's Chief bred back onto his daughter to produce the litter Millie and Zip are out of. The Chief dog is a line/family bred Nance blooded dog that goes back to the old Nances Little Topper dog.

The Stella dog is a high tan dog out of a heavily line/family bred line of dogs that originated from a line bred wagoner black and tan dog bred to a son of the old Nances little Topper. These High Tan dogs have been heavly line and family bred for years by some very tough, hard to please, and knowledgable houndsmen that hunt lion , bear, and bobcat for a living every day of the year. We have used Slim, Sampson, and Topper in our breeding program with the High Tan (Nance/Wagoner) line with very good results as well.

Likem lovem or hatem Sampson and Topper have both proven themselves to produce nice balanced hounds that can and do reproduce the same type of dog.

[Cold Track]

I had a litter of pups out of Slim and a female of mine that is jeff's old blood. If any of you have been around Jeff's dog Grandpa you will see that he is a heck of a good dog and one of Jeff's favorites, he came from this cross. Too bad he's a gielding.

[hunt14]

What does Holts Tazzie's 3 generation pedigree look like? Being the mother to Sampson and Topper it would be interesting to know.

[twist]

hunt14, Tazzies sire was marosoks little topper III whos sire was marosoks bobby II and dam was marosoks little queen, tazzies dam was marosoks little windy her sire was marosoks sawdust and her dam was marosoks sugar. sugar, queen and bobby II were all directly out of marosoks bobby who was directly out of marosoks little topper, as sawdust was a half brother to bobby. So you can see she was a very well thought out breeding. hope this is what you were looking for. later, Andy

[hunt14]

Thanks a bunch Andy!

[Redneck]

Mike hit the nail on the head when he said these dogs are old. But it doesn't matter if they are gone tomorrow. If there are dogs with the same blood lines, that are better more complete dogs, and proven reproducers. Then why would you want to go backwards? This seems like a no brainer. This is a realy good thread. I wish more people would chime in and let us know what direcion they are heading. This is where I'm heading.
Flirt X Ace II= millie topper, millie sampson
jess X AceII
Jess X Tom dog in vegas = This is the cross that produced jeff's buck, bell and flow

Then if Jeff is willing I will start breeding to his Buck dog. Buck is a small tight built dog with a ton of grit. He can scream down a bear at full speed and grub a cold lion the next day. He has a realy cold nose and I think that is the difference maker.

Finaly and hopefully before I breed myself into a corner, some out cross. Washburn, white cloud, house, bozo ? Who knows, maybe someone on here has made an outcross that is working real well.

James G. Moore 541 413 2005

Mike hit the nail on the head when he said these dogs are old. But it doesn't matter if they are gone tomorrow. If there are dogs with the same blood lines, that are better more complete dogs, and proven reproducers. Then why would you want to go backwards? This seems like a no brainer. This is a realy good thread. I wish more people would chime in and let us know what direcion they are heading. This is where I'm heading.
Flirt X Ace II= millie topper, millie sampson
jess X AceII
Jess X Tom dog in vegas = This is the cross that produced jeff's buck, bell and flow

Then if Jeff is willing I will start breeding to his Buck dog. Buck is a small tight built dog with a ton of grit. He can scream down a bear at full speed and grub a cold lion the next day. He has a realy cold nose and I think that is the difference maker.

Finaly and hopefully before I breed myself into a corner, some out cross. Washburn, white cloud, house, bozo ? Who knows, maybe someone on here has made an outcross that is working real well.

James G. Moore 541 413 2005

James i will have to wait till January to see if my current cross from Jeff. will be great hunters i have high hopes for these little guys and galls this is the line they are from
1st Ace , hank+bonnie = badger , badger + jody a high tan = tucker, tucker + shorty= jack ,jack + cindy = salt + my female daisy 1/2 B&t 1/2 cameron = 1/4 B&T 1/4 cameron 1/2 old nance line walker's from Jeff Allen
the walker looking pups are ticked with blue and red spots on some of them moslty white with black and tan spots on them here is a link to the pups
here are the B&t female pups from this cross
http://s1109.photobucket.com/albums/h42 ... nd%20tans/
here is the picture to the male pup im keeping
http://i1109.photobucket.com/albums/h42 ... 0_0804.jpg
and here is a link to his sister im keeping
http://i1109.photobucket.com/albums/h42 ... 0_0791.jpg feel free to take a look at them i do have this information on them
Little Rounder
old Nance topper ,The Nance blood of today sure makes some nice biggame dogs, but even Jeff will tell you they are not near as tough a dog physically or mentaly as those old Joker bred dogs like old Ace, Hank and Cindy. Seems to me that old Nance blood was a big part of these old southwestern dry ground hounds.

Topper Again, was sired by Hussey's Hunter and dam was Holt's Tazzie
Nance's Little Topper
House's Bawlie-1963 ACHA Dual World Champion House's Bawlie
Ch. Nite Ch. Shetler's Sonny Boy father to finely river chief
Ch. Nite Ch. Bixler's Supreme Sally mother to Nite Champion Finley River: Chief
FINLEY RIVER CHIEF strain was brought to the attention of the public.The next year in 1966 a grandson of Finley River Chief won the 1966 ACHA World Championship, The late W.F. (Bill) Derden and Ch.Nt.Ch. Can Win Dandee, a son of Nt.Ch. Finley River Chief and a litter mate to Can Win Jude in 1965

Joker was a son of Nances little Topper,
White River King, White River Boone, White River Rowdy. These dogs would be the foundation for the strain called NANCE or WHITE RIVER walker strains

Thank you robert aka redneck

[RYDOG]

Hello,I have a few dogs out of sampson and I could not be more happy.These dogs are some game catching machines with no quit.The first dog I got out of sampson was from dean lyman back in 2002.This was from sampson and Nelson's Rockin top Riley.I still own this dog and he has produced some fine pups in his time although he is cut now.{big mistake}The other two dogs I have are a male from sampson/sunrise sampson and a female I got from jeff out of sampson/flirt. and as I said I could not be pleased as they are working out great for me.
Thanks,Ryan

[DC DOGGIN]

There is alot of good posts on this thread and they have helped me to got more of an insight on this strain of dogs. It surely seems there is a loop, and your either in it or not. As far as knowing what is what and who is who and who had what and so on and so forth.
I have a ? a little off topic. I have never hunted with any of these dogs or there offspring or relatives.
This post has surely got me wondering what im feeding, as im sure alot of others are wondering the same. The way these dogs get talked up, don't get me wrong, I am sure they are nice dogs, no doubt. I am just curious as to how nice. And compared to what. As there is alot of GOOD dogmen with positive feedback. I am curious as to how many of the good houndsmen have dogs from other good hunters strain of dogs. For example DADS DOG BOY is hunting a little nance bitch and really likes her, Mike leonard is hunting some of this blood. How many different guys are hunting different strains of dogs other than their own breeding? And how do they compare to their own breeding. If Dewey Walton, South Texan, poser, or any other good houndsmen, cause i only named a few, And there surely is many more out there or anyone from CA currently hunting any and if so how long and how do they perform. Just curious who has tried any of these dogs and there thoughts or opinions, As well as any of others i would be interested to hear some feedback. As well as who is hunting them in different parts of the country and different types of game.. I hope to hear lots of feed back and gain some good knowledge if it's possible. No flap jackin or smack stackin i would prefer a clean discussion. LOL thanks DC

[PIGLET]

DC i have a male out of sampson and a female named muzzy, At this time he is a great bear and cat dog, and i was sure i was going with this line of dogs, but i have two litters of pups out of him and am really disappointed with their progress, so even tho i am a huge supporter of this line, i know he isn't producing pups like sampson and topper again so there is something for people to consider! to answer your question ive run with alot of dogs and hes just as good as alot of good ones he has his strengths and weakness like any dog!

[BuckNAze]

I always wondered some about the Nance dogs and I actually ended up going halfers on a pup out of Topper Again for my buddy. She seemed to start off good but had a hip injury when she was young from jumping out of the back of a truck which slowed her progress down as he wasnt able to cat hunt her the first season he had her. It took her awhile to recover and he wanted to make sure she healed right so he started her on bear, was doing good at the beginning of the season and now she is pretty much leading his pack. She is just over a year old or year and a half or so but is out of Topper Again X Dottie cross. I was impressed with her speed and I think she's gonna be his overall lead dog in no time. Only Nance dog Ive seen but I wouldnt mind trying one, will hunt whatever hunts.