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nmplott, not going to laugh at ya because no one can prove it.but i always wished i could put my nose to the ground and come up with all the answers. i don't believe that on a track that you are able to move that a critter can just take a deep breath and hold back its sent at will. but over the years there are times when you see a critter with your own eyes and the dogs can't do dam thing with it for a hundred yards or so. don't know why, i think after seeing it in the same situations more than a few times it has to have something do with fear. like when somone scares ya so bad ya think your heart skips a beat and the hair stands up on the back of your neck. might be mother natures way of giving them alittle extra edge in a tight spot. she sure does it with females and their young.i have seen more than one good hound on a grey fox, so screwed up mama would bark to try and call them away from her den where her pups were. heck even certain birds will flutter and make you think their hurt to get you away from their young . so nmplott, now they can laugh at me. but before they do i would suggest sit up in the saddle or tighten your boot laces and look over a lot of ridge tops and you will see some of the same things and wonder why. jmo good luck!

I was told that it happens when they go from tom catting around to sneaking around hunting or trying to sneak away.. Not sure on how long they do it but thats what Orville told me.. I know I've trailed out to a point or out on a ridge and then it seems like it just disappears and come to find out that lion just walked out there and turned right around and walked right back over his own tracks..

in the flight or fight response the digestion system comes to a screaching hault, the release of epinepherine happens all in a cascade of events. This happens whether it is fight or flight so I think this may contribute to the lack of scent as the metabolic processes are interupted and shift according to the bodies needs. I dont understand how this would happen as each strand of fur should have some scent on it and fur has to touch something and leave scent somewhere (or at least you would think). but my dogs are not the best but they do catch lions and bobcats enough that I justify feeding them. I will admit when I lose and I will admit when I am wrong but I am asking the more experienced lion hunters there take on this.

nmplott,

When you heading out next after him...I would like to go...

fridays or saturdays depending on when I get my sh)t together and finish studying for this damn A and P II test.

Well give me a call when you get your obligations out of the way...

pm me your number I got a new cell

I have seen this happen on Bobcat. The dogs just run out of track in good trailing conditions, about an hour or so into the race so either the cat runs all its scent off or the dog gets dehydrated and his trailing suffers. I think its a combonation of both.

Dale Lee had several times that he believe that a lion did hold his scent when scared. Bobcat can do it. I have seen it happen probably 6 or 8 times. There is no way it should be possible for any thing to keep its scent from dispensing. I have seen bobcats in the road that I scared out that the dogs would lose when they got there or I have ran them out of a road put the dogs on them and not get a bark or acknowledgment that the cat was there. Walking the dogs up into the woods the way the cat went 50 to 100 yards then the dogs could take it out. It happens, there is no way to explain it. Dewey

bigfootexp wrote:the dog gets dehydrated and his trailing suffers

Excellent point.

Dehydration and over heating is a major ending point for most dogs. A a lot of the old lion hunters would stop there dogs in the heat give them a drink, wait until it cooled down then put the dogs on the track and trail it up. On bobcats I have done the same. I have had a few that were just staying ahead of the dogs, the dogs were hot enough that they could not put the push on. When I stopped the dogs give them water and a break then put them back on the cat had stop also. The dogs got a clean jump in a vary short distance and treed the cat. Then there is the ones that made it to the next county or bluffs or who knows where. Dewey

I caught a bobcat sat am, had the dogs on the ground roading them and seen the cats eyes in the road. Dogs hammered the track and treed 75 yards from the road. I pushed the cat out and and the dogs shutup and never opened till 150 yrds from tree and then they still couldnt do anything with it. They where all running around but not a peep, once the dogs got it lined out the cat had all ready gave them the slip. Never treed the cat again, I think when the cat jumped he held his scent for a while. The dogs treed in the pitch black dark and could smell the cat in the tree, I could tell when they where treeing by there head and sniffing and then blowing up,But who knows. I couldnt beleive they couldnt do anything with it when I pushed him out. I think bobcats can hold there scent, dont have a clue about lions. This is not the only time this has happened to me on bobcats.

If a lion could hold it`s scent, what in the evolution of nature would warrant this? Lions are at the TOP of the food chain, even wolves are no match for a hell-bent lion.

I could see prey animals evolving to hold their scent, as a survival response, but it doesn`t make scientific sense that a predator would, unless it somehow occurs to enable the predator to approach closer to it`s prey with less scent to give away it`s location.

How and where does a lion give off scent?

From my thinking, there are a few places..........
Scent from foot pads and scent secreting cells from the tissue between the pads.

Scent from oil glands at each hair folicle.......left on foilage as it makes contact with fur.

Anal scent glands, urinary scent, faeces scent.........marking scrapes and such.

Scent left on fur from previous kills, saliva scent from licking fur.

Breath scent from respirations, nasal secretions.

Cerumen, aka ear wax. Yup, ears emilt odours.

Scent glands from around the eyes, rubbed on rocks and trees for feline communication.

Pheremones.........all mammals secrete them........not sure where they come from on lions.

Thats alot of scent, from various orfices that would have to be contained if a lion could hold it`s scent.

I have heard that maybe their scent changes a little when they are in flight or fight mode like you said but I saw this same thing happening with a lion around here and some guys I used to hunt with before I had dogs. It took finally being able to see what was going on in the race to realize we were just dealing with one smart SOB! This was a big tom and everytime the dogs acted like they had him jumped they would lose him. We finally got him by watching him run a ways before the dogs ever got to him and he jumped off a cliff about 60ft away and a ways down he landed in a big ponderosa and he would just stay up there and hide. He had a bunch of tricks he used to use but that was his last. Im not saying that better locating dogs would have been fooled by him but Im just saying that lions are alot smarter than we give them credit for.

Scent is something I think no one really knows how it works.I know a lot of old timers that say that lion can hold there scent. I have experienced it with bobcats. It should be impossible to do, but something happens. Who knows? Most of what we see or hear that happens with hounds we make up anyway, especially if we did not understand what happen. Dewey