Lions are not Territorial!!

Boar Runner · Post by **Boar Runner** » Wed Jan 16, 2008 4:01 am

Population density is what makes lion habits in California different than
any other state. .

Juvenials seem more likley to "group" up, especially around suburban areas. there are instances of multiple males, like a bachelor group,
or females sticken with mom while the next litter is coming up.
I have yet to hear or see two females with two sets of kittens together,
but big momma with 2 separate sets of kickoffs is fairly common.

Anywhere a lion can make a living there are 5 trying, in this state they don't have territories, they have ranges, and have to share that range with many other lions.

twist · Post by **twist** » Wed Jan 16, 2008 7:51 pm

I have seen several times were there have been a couple females with young a mile or so apart and have a couple toms in the same area a few years back i turned out on a large tom and trailed it to a deer kill where him and a female and 2, 30-40lb cubs were at. ended up treeing all 4 cats in a hundred yard radius and had the tom and 1 cub tree in same tree. So i guess it just depends on the area.

Hunt 365 · Post by **Hunt 365** » Wed Jan 16, 2008 9:46 pm

Most areas that can support lions will have more than one female in it with or without young. Females are not territorial, they usually stay with in a 20 mile radius from point of birth unless food or environment changes.

As far as more than one dominant male in a area is not likely. It could happen but not for a long time, sooner or latter two dominant males would have to meet. Now here are a few facts to think about. Cubs can and do stay with the mother up to 18 months. In 18 months a male cub can reach a weight up to 120-130 lbs and appear to be a adult lion by the track it leaves. Tom lions do not reach sexual maturity until the age of 3, at which time the dominate male will run them off. So to say several adult males living in tight area could happen. To say several sexual mature (3 years old or dominate) males living in a tight area is not likely.

Now it has took about 100 years to prove these facts because 99% of lions are killed by the time they make 2 years of age. So if you have more than 1 tom over the age of 2 in your area call National Geographic.

mpritchard · Post by **mpritchard** » Thu Jan 17, 2008 3:07 am

Jeez, great stuff here!!

What I found last Sat were two big toms crossing the road headed up hill, less than a mile apart from each other, both moving about the same time the nite before. Then, an hour later I went walking and found two sub adults traveling side by side downhill. These two cats were between the two big tom trax, and had not yet crossed the road when I found them. That made 4 lions within a mile of each other.

I think the big attraction is the deer herd. There is a bunch of deer hanging out in the immediate area.

Hunt 365 · Post by **Hunt 365** » Thu Jan 17, 2008 12:29 pm

There is only one thing that is a fact about a lion track, it was made by a lion. Unless all four tracks where walked on with dogs and jump the lion then treed, all else is a educated guess.

jhelvik · Post by **jhelvik** » Thu Jan 17, 2008 1:56 pm

I am going to have to agree with hunt 365 for the most part. I am not claiming to be an expert by any means but I have a Biology major and emphasized in animal physiology. The real truth of the matter is that nobody knows a whole lot about mountain lions. You could ask 20 different people about lion behavior and you would get about 20 different answers. I think each lion population behaves in a slightly different way depending upon their environment in which they live.

twist · Post by **twist** » Thu Jan 17, 2008 2:46 pm

Like i said earlier i think it depends on the area i have hunted the same private spotts for over 25 years and know there have been dominate toms stay in the same area as i have treed them and if not treed the tracks were narrowed down to a certain area or coulee this was done as i was narrowing down bobcat tracks. Lions are on the back burner in my hunting if for some reason we cant get a bobcat going we will run a lion. This is not an educated guess this is the truth.

Idcurs · Post by **Idcurs** » Thu Jan 17, 2008 3:49 pm

High numbers of deer will make all the difference how a lion acts in many places.In my southern parts of Az where I hunt lion a big tom will kill any tom in his area he encounters.Up on the kaibab where there is a deer on every ridge you don't see this as much--it does happen just not as offen.When I trapped lions I had a few spots on the ranch that I could catch many toms a year ,females and kittens.When I would kill a lion in one of those sptos many times a another lion would come by and eat that dead lion.More time than I can remember lions ate bobcats in a trap on that ranch.I have found on many occacasions where a tom lion had killed and eaten another tom lion that just crossed the wrong place at the wrong time.Now there are very few deer on that ranch and many times I caught lions off a cow kill.I have found where tom lions found kittens and killed and ate them.It does not seem to matter what size they are when he finds them --they are on the menu!!!!Lions are killing machines and will take what moves in front of them most of the time,all that kissy face disney bs about the sick and hurt is just that BS!!!I put 23 steers in a pasture and three were crippled ,lions ate 12 in the next 8 months.When i gathered that pasture all three crippled steers came out!!! I caught a female that had no teeth left ,and only one canine and it was flat .She had killed a mama cow and eaten then covered it up,when I caught her in the tree I could'nd believe that she could have killed a rabbit much less a cow that size.I have done thisn for more than 30 years and you just can't think like a lion does and no one will no all the answers.

Spanky · Post by **Spanky** » Thu Jan 17, 2008 7:58 pm

When I would kill a lion in one of those spots many times a another lion would come by and eat that dead lion. More times than I can remember lions ate bobcats in a trap on that ranch. I have found on many occacasions where a tom lion had killed and eaten another tom lion that just crossed the wrong place at the wrong time.

I have found where tom lions found kittens and killed and ate them. It does not seem to matter what size they are when he finds them --they are on the menu!!!!

IDCURS are you sure about that :roll:

I believe I mentioned that earlier but was said to be wrong because that is not what National Geographic claims :lol:

I guess this only happens in Montana, Africa and now Arizona. Funny how not everything is written in books and spelled out in biology class and yet whatever National Geographic prints is gospel :roll:

Jake Bess · Post by **Jake Bess** » Thu Jan 17, 2008 9:02 pm

I believe that all animals have basic instincts to survive and will do what is the most beneficial to them but I believe they all have there own personalities and may act different we found were a big tom killed a female and here two kittens and caught him off the kills until there were all eaten and found were he had tracked another tom down and fought with him we also had a real good population of lions at the time I would say nothing is set in stone and the more I hunt the more I figure out that I don't know as much as I thought a good study with lots of tracking data will give you a basic idea.

[quote]
An opinion is one thing but it don't make it a fact

Spanky · Post by **Spanky** » Thu Jan 17, 2008 9:11 pm

Absolutely right Jake.....doing studies under ideal circumstances or studies in New Mexico or California does not dictate cougar activiteis in montana, wyoming or idaho.
Every area is different with too many different enviromental factors. Weather and population alone factors into cougar behavior more then any study compiled by some college students.
We all will have our opinions, I rather follow would I have seen first hand then believe some study.

Hunt 365 · Post by **Hunt 365** » Thu Jan 17, 2008 9:37 pm

Now Spankit if you are butt hurt so be it. I said know where the info came from a book or National Geographic. The problem with a lot of hound hunters is they know it all from birth and assume.

Just because a lion is in a trap and partly ate with a lion standing over the dead lion means jack. Badgers, Coyotes, Fox, Bobcats, Wolves and house dogs could of done it. Unless you have seen a lion or have video of a lion eating a dead lion it is just a guess.

I didn't say they "don't" I said there is little evidence of it. Lions are not known to be cannibals or scavengers but on occasions all animals do funny things. Maybe it does only happen in Montana, but as long as there are lion in Montana I would have a hard time believing it happens much. Get the point?

Spanky · Post by **Spanky** » Thu Jan 17, 2008 10:20 pm

At first I did not know if I wanted to respond since right off the bat you want the conversasion to swing to a sexual tone, makes me wonder what I am dealing with :roll:

I'm pretty sure this is a houndsmen site not some *** site. The only one as you put it "butt hurt" here must be you.

Now Spankit if you are butt hurt so be it.

Apparently you can not have an intelligent differance of opinions. Your the perfect example of why some forums are private.

I have to disagree. I have seen and read years of studies done on mountain lions. There is little evidence of Mountain Lions acting like the African Lion and kill the young.

I have seen it first hand and on more then one occasion and not in some leg hold. Whether you believe it or not does not mean jack **** to me. You stick with quoting some study.

How about we hear first who you are and what state you live in so we can even determine if you yourself even own a hound or treed a lion or have ever left the office.

Once you prove me wrong there which would be fine then you can prove me wrong again with your study I would like to read it to see if indeed it was conducted here in montana or similar state with the same enviromental impacts.

Hunt 365 · Post by **Hunt 365** » Thu Jan 17, 2008 11:27 pm

Why would I be Butt Hurt? I have done it Spanky. I have nothing to prove to you or any other. I have been sharing some facts about lions until you got a ruffled up. What I have been sharing is not from books or National Geographic, it has been from 100's of lions not 101 lions, 100's. (300-400)

If you want, we can meet up at a coffee shop and compare notes and photos. You are the one that needs to prove your credentials.

This is my last post on the subject so take care and good hunting!

larry · Post by **larry** » Thu Jan 17, 2008 11:33 pm

Ha, looks like old 365 is gonna try to step out gracefully before he gets a jackass made out of himself...too late