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Buckles, I think those dogs should be college professors! Someday you will learn dogs don't think like a human, they do the things they do by instinct and the scent going into their nose. A dog doesn't know that if he doesn't bark the lion will tree sooner, he doesn't bark as much because the scent isn't as strong as a bear. There is a behavior reason for dogs doing things that you may interpret as the dog thinking like yourself. Hate to burst your bubble but Get Real.

mondomuttruner wrote:Buckles, I think those dogs should be college professors! Someday you will learn dogs don't think like a human, they do the things they do by instinct and the scent going into their nose. A dog doesn't know that if he doesn't bark the lion will tree sooner, he doesn't bark as much because the scent isn't as strong as a bear. There is a behavior reason for dogs doing things that you may interpret as the dog thinking like yourself. Hate to burst your bubble but Get Real.

I appreciate your response. I hope you don't get offended if I disagree with you. It's good to have healthy discussion so the young hunters can learn. If what you say is true, then explain how lion scent is weaker than a cat or a bear. Because all those cat hunters out there will tell you their dogs sound off on those weak tracks. Also, can you give me an explanation as to why my one dog runs lion silent while the others run wide open and chopping from start to finish. Please don't tell me that my one dog has a weak nose. I would like to hear more from all you cat hunters. Cat hunters out their have dogs that are sounding off on every race whether it is a bob-cat, lion or bear. Your right about dogs having instinct, but if you think that instinct is all that is needed for a dog to learn, then please explain why some dogs never make it to the top with just their instincts. If a dog or any animal didn't have a thought process, they wouldn't learn shit. Dogs can learn their name, and to back away from muscle blast when we shoot, and a hell of a lot more. Instinct is bread into an animal, but training along with thinking makes the difference in dogs. Scent is created in the air and on the ground from animals dropping skin cells and scent from animal glands. I don't beleive there is such a thing as weak scent. I beleive that scent is either old or washed out. Other factors that lead to weaker scent is cold or snow, and it will last longer comepared to scent on hot moist ground which is stronger, and get weaker sooner. I would like to hear more about why you don't beleive dogs can think. If my one dog can smell a lion and sound off on the box, he can damed sure sound off on the track, IF HE WANTED TO.

mondomuttruner wrote:Buckles, I think those dogs should be college professors! Someday you will learn dogs don't think like a human, they do the things they do by instinct and the scent going into their nose. A dog doesn't know that if he doesn't bark the lion will tree sooner, he doesn't bark as much because the scent isn't as strong as a bear. There is a behavior reason for dogs doing things that you may interpret as the dog thinking like yourself. Hate to burst your bubble but Get Real.

REALLY? That is a narrow minded and bold statement . I agree with buckles on this one. For instance back when i was getting started, i had a dog that liked to catch skunks, i know it's not a preferred game but that's what he would catch if there wasnt any good game around. He knew he would get his a$$ in trouble for doing so, but still did. He started getting smart and would not open on track anymore just come back stinkin well i still disciplined him and after a few good times he finally quit, untill i ran him with another guys dogs that were trashy. Thats when i decided i would hunt my dogs alone or with someone i knew and trusted there dogs. So yes dogs are smart and do know what they are doing and go through a thought process. Maybe you just havent owned a smart dog. JMO DC

some dogs open on a cold track and some don't. The ones that don't open on a cold track but do open on the jump tells you there wasn't enough scent to open on. I've seen dogs that wouldn't even open on a two hour old track, not enough scent. Not that they can't smell it, just not enough scent to open. Every dog is different on how much scent it takes to open. I don't buy into the thought of dogs learning from a thought process but rather learning from a good experience or a bad experience or from a canine instinct. Not pointing a finger at you but I've heard too many stories made up by a dog owner to make up for the dogs inadequacies(is that a word?) just my opinion, I'm sure there's somebody out there that could better put into words what I'm trying to say.

mondomuttruner wrote:some dogs open on a cold track and some don't. The ones that don't open on a cold track but do open on the jump tells you there wasn't enough scent to open on. I've seen dogs that wouldn't even open on a two hour old track, not enough scent. Not that they can't smell it, just not enough scent to open. Every dog is different on how much scent it takes to open. I don't buy into the thought of dogs learning from a thought process but rather learning from a good experience or a bad experience or from a canine instinct. Not pointing a finger at you but I've heard too many stories made up by a dog owner to make up for the dogs inadequacies(is that a word?) just my opinion, I'm sure there's somebody out there that could better put into words what I'm trying to say.

Your right in some respects, but your statement was that lions have a weaker scent than bear. I beleive that there is no such thing as weaker scent. Only old or hot scent tracks. I also beleive that some dogs have a better sniffer than others. That's why some dogs won't open on a cold track and others will. Most dogs will learn everything by association; such as a dog crapping in the house; after a few wippings and taking it outside to go, they get the measage. Instinct had nothing to do with the dog learning not to crap in the house. It is a learned process which requires the dogs to think, and if the dog can't think, we can't teach them to do what we want them to do. I appreciate your comments. I'm sure the young hunters will enjoy this dialog.

Good discussion, here is my thoughts all dogs can smell about the same it is just what they do or how they react when they smell something that is different. Dogs react different to different animals scent. Dogs are trainable,they reason things out from us training and watching other dogs work. Ever thing we do is training a dog if we are aware or not. You can teach a dog to cold trail or not to by how you hunt. A dog will react to a bayed bear by training, go in and catch or not. Dogs have natural ability and we can culture it if we are aware of what we are doing or not. At times it appears that dogs reason things out but I think it is training that maybe we are not even aware that we do. Dogs are just dogs and do what dogs are bred to do and people are just people and most of the time we don't have a clue as to what we are doing.We can all over think something. No offense meant to any one. Dewey

Dewey,

I think you nailed it. Sometimes we give dogs too much credit and at others not enough.

Some dogs are real open trailers, some are silent. Sometimes they can switch that up as they get older. I've seen it in two instances recently where good old dogs, started to open on cold track when they had never done it in their life. One was a cat dog, one was a bear dog. I've also seen it swing the other way. Dogs just do what they are going to do and we need to be aware of it.

The fundamental key to getting a dog to go, is get it on game. Once we accomplish that whatever is in the dog will take over. A dog can learn from the other dogs on the track, but at that point we are usually just observers.

i cant say as ive seen enough in 15 years to support the fact that all dogs noses are created equal dewey . in fact everything ive seen says the opposite as i started out with hot nosed dogs until i got into the line i have now that as pups will start cold trailing young . the people who have gotten pups off me are amazed that they can take tracks out that there older hounds cant.maybe in another 15-20 years i will agree with you .im not saying a hounds brains and experiences cant overcome some of their handicaps ,because they can take a hound along ways.people arent just people either think about it. there are people in this world that can due things you or i will never be able to do no matter how much training or experience we get or how much we would want to .the fact that there are elite in people and hounds is really no surprise .if your right maybe i am an excellent singer afterall. i just havent had enough training and experience . you fella s will have to excuse me im gonna go put on my personal version of american idol for my family ,but first i will hide the eggs and tomatoes. thanks for giving me hope dewey. kordog

Yes this is a good topic with somegood replies, I would like for someone to explain to me why or what would cause my hound to be open on track several times and then him getting in trouble for what he was doing and continue to do it but silently, if a skunk didn't spray i would never have know what he was doing! Which brings up the topic of how many hounds are actually "BROKE" ya see he knew that he was going to get in trouble for it (IF) i caught him so he tried to sneak off and do it silently but cama back reeking like pepe lapu!!! Im open to opinions good or bad maybe im crazy maybe me and my hounds are all crazy most likely!!! DC

Dogs may not have the ability to think as humans do, but surely there has to be something that triggers their brain to do certain things and respond to certain conditions. Example: You train the dog not to crap in the house. Now the dog has learned to tell you in some way by barking or standing by the back door. Every dog will respond differently. Now, suppose the dog feels a twitch in his ass. Do you suppose his ass tells you to come and let him out, or does his ass say to his brain, I have to go, and his brain somehow tells him to notify his master that he has to take a dump? Dogs are not human, and we can all agree to that, but surely there must be some chemistry working inside that head of theirs. Not like us but in some way we can't explain.
Dogs can't really think like humans, but they can still react to situations and make decisions, but they don't actually think things over and weigh the choices

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dwalton wrote:Good discussion, here is my thoughts all dogs can smell about the same it is just what they do or how they react when they smell something that is different. Dogs react different to different animals scent. Dogs are trainable,they reason things out from us training and watching other dogs work. Ever thing we do is training a dog if we are aware or not. You can teach a dog to cold trail or not to by how you hunt. A dog will react to a bayed bear by training, go in and catch or not. Dogs have natural ability and we can culture it if we are aware of what we are doing or not. At times it appears that dogs reason things out but I think it is training that maybe we are not even aware that we do. Dogs are just dogs and do what dogs are bred to do and people are just people and most of the time we don't have a clue as to what we are doing.We can all over think something. No offense meant to any one. Dewey

When you say all dogs can smell the same, do you mean any Breed can smell the same, or are you referring to just one breed of hound dogs? I see where they use all types of breeds for drugs, cancer, and other things.

I realize that most of this discussion may never be proven but I thought I would interject something related to the dogs thinking.

How is it some dogs are afraid or skiddish? Is this a condition of breading? If it is, then why doesn't the whole litter come out afraid. Could this fear be triggered in the dogs brain?

I'm not trying to upset anyone with my questions and comments. I'm just trying to exersize the minds of hound hunters and have fun learning from your replies.

I believe all hunting dogs have comparable smelling ability. Enough to track any and all game that we hunt. The difference is in the response triggered by the scent. That response can be genetic and also enhanced by training. I had a doberman years ago that could trail lots of stuff and had the desire to do it. I don't know why he had such a highly developed trailing instinct. Several breeds of dogs can smell marijuana in a truck full of onions. I'm sure that same dog could smell a several hours old lion track on dry ground. What he wants to do with it is what makes the difference.

like I replied before, dogs learn from good experiences(being praised for treeing, catching, coming when called, ect.) bad experiences( electo shock therapy or similar for shitting on the floor, barking on chain, trashing out, ect.) the only reasoning in a dogs brain is mostly pain or praise. JMO I've seen pretty good dogs cold trail and not open so I don't think that a dog that doesn't open on a cold track doesn't have a good nose, barking is in the dog itself not their nose.

mondomuttruner wrote:like I replied before, dogs learn from good experiences(being praised for treeing, catching, coming when called, ect.) bad experiences( electo shock therapy or similar for shitting on the floor, barking on chain, trashing out, ect.) the only reasoning in a dogs brain is mostly pain or praise. JMO I've seen pretty good dogs cold trail and not open so I don't think that a dog that doesn't open on a cold track doesn't have a good nose, barking is in the dog itself not their nose.

Mondo, I beleive you got it right about dogs running silent and having a good nose. Like I said had a dog that screamed on a bear but run silent on the lion. If the lion came out of the tree that same dog would scream on the lion. Buckles