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Re: Corn based Dog food

Posted: Thu Aug 25, 2011 12:21 am
by BoarHunter1
Corn is junk.
Its cheap and why its used. Soy is even worse.

Corn is laden with Genetically Modified Monsanto seeds, Pesticides, herbicides, and toxins.

Old Roy is made in China, that should mean something to some of you, but it wont to most.

If any think its ok to feed toxins, its not.
In some cases it is and has been lethal, but yes you can feed it, some dogs can eat it and live out just fine.

I fed a dog Pedigree for 16 years before I knew different.
I would not do it today, at least not in hunting season, when dog is being worked hard.

Rice is a very easy to digest Carb. Corn by contrast, is not-but thats not the real reason I wont feed it.
Rice is not laden with chemicals to grow it either.

'You are what you eat' applies to dogs as well.

Re: Corn based Dog food

Posted: Thu Aug 25, 2011 1:11 am
by BoarHunter1
Iditarod Sled Musher..see what he feeds his dogs.

These guys KNOW dog nutrition..their kibble is usually Eagle Pack, Eukanuba or high grade

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a3Nwd75CslE

Re: Corn based Dog food

Posted: Thu Aug 25, 2011 11:52 am
by Bearkiller
Trueblue, I can tell you for a fact that I have to feed less of a higher quality dog food to keep weight on my dogs. That's all I even care about. I was just pointing out that the "article" you posted didn't have much for facts and was purely an opinion based article. Houndnem, Ole roy is one of the most expensive dog foods that I have fed. You have to feed twice as much and clean up twice as much. I have been feeding sport mix 26/20 with good results and not near as much feed. 34.95 for 55 LBS is cheaper than most of the "name brand" dog food here. In fact, IFA wants the same price for their store brand dog food.

Re: Corn based Dog food

Posted: Thu Aug 25, 2011 12:38 pm
by Trueblue
Bearkiller,believe it or not you and I are on the same page.We both feed dog foods with similar ingredient lists.I feed Hi-Standard and it works for me both on price and the performance level I get from my dogs.I hunt harder than anyone I know and the true test is how the dogs perform and endure on any given diet.I've tried the high grade, high priced dog foods like Eagle Pack Power(for a whole bear season) which is popular among mushers but there was no noticeable difference to me that warranted paying a premium price.I have talked to a few canine nutritionists on the phone including the one from Eagle Pack and have learned a great deal about what goes into dog foods both cheap and expensive.Most of the high grade,high priced foods boast human grade ingredients along with chelated vitamins and minerals that are supposed to be a superior more absorb-able form.It all sounds great to the consumer who loves their dog and wants to feed them the best but in my observations I just can't see a big enough difference in my dogs to warrant the high price.The whole point of that article I posted was that each person needs to use their common sense and use what works for you.Don't believe all the hype from the dog food fadists.

Re: Corn based Dog food

Posted: Thu Aug 25, 2011 12:52 pm
by Trueblue
Boarhunter1,here is some fact based information for you on cereal grains.Please list for us the sources where you acquired your information.By the way,Eagle Pack was a great company with a good product until they sold out to WellPet.It went down hill after that,in my opinion.They had a line of food called Prism that was good food at a reasonable price but after the transfer of ownership the quality suffered.
http://www.hilarywatson.com/cereals.pdf

Re: Corn based Dog food

Posted: Thu Aug 25, 2011 1:38 pm
by Bearkiller
Yeah, I figured as much. I fed high standard all last winter and the dogs did pretty good. The guy I was buying it from quit selling it. That's why I'm feeding the sportmix. I'll probably stick to the sportmix as long as they keep doing good on it.

Re: Corn based Dog food

Posted: Thu Aug 25, 2011 4:28 pm
by Melanie Hampton
I know when I feed anything with corn in it, my bloodhound (the couch dog :) ) gets horrible nasty ear infections..

I feed a beef and rice dog food for the most part. In the winter I also go to the butcher shop and get some scrap meat (I have to buy it, but it is pretty cheap) and add into the dog food..

So far the dogs have been doing well and I feed less of it..

Re: Corn based Dog food

Posted: Thu Aug 25, 2011 4:40 pm
by CatCrazed
I heard that some of the sled dog guys feed ground up bald eagle with a eagle egg on top. Lol joking. :twisted:

Re: Corn based Dog food

Posted: Thu Aug 25, 2011 8:43 pm
by houndnem
Bearkiller wrote: Houndnem, Ole roy is one of the most expensive dog foods that I have fed. You have to feed twice as much and clean up twice as much. I have been feeding sport mix 26/20 with good results and not near as much feed. 34.95 for 55 LBS is cheaper than most of the "name brand" dog food here. In fact, IFA wants the same price for their store brand dog food.
ol roy brown bag is 22 bucks for 50 lbs. 27/15 and I only have to feed 2 cups a day with very little cleanup. all of the other types of ol roy are crap. this kind I feed is probably crap too, but I sure have had great luck with it and it's what I can afford. if I ever get skinny dogs with poor nutrition I will probly switch. nothin feeds quite as good as a nice lion or bobcat carcus in the winter though. :wink:

Re: Corn based Dog food

Posted: Thu Aug 25, 2011 9:11 pm
by driftwood blue
[quote="BoarHunter1"] .

Old Roy is made in China, that should mean something to some of you, but it wont to most.



What a laugh... you can believe anything you like- I am not standing up for things wally world but I can tell you without any doubt that all kinds of Old Roy are made at Triple T foods in Frontenac, KS---My son makes about 4 trips down there with a semi load of Soybean meal ever weekend that he has time...

Soybean makes for big fluffy dog stools and a lot of clean up

Re: Corn based Dog food

Posted: Thu Aug 25, 2011 11:49 pm
by desertdog
Why does everyone think small hard stools are good? It aint good for people, if there's enough fiber in the diet, the stools are going to be larger.

Re: Corn based Dog food

Posted: Fri Aug 26, 2011 12:30 am
by BoarHunter1
Trueblue wrote:Boarhunter1,here is some fact based information for you on cereal grains.Please list for us the sources where you acquired your information.By the way,Eagle Pack was a great company with a good product until they sold out to WellPet.It went down hill after that,in my opinion.They had a line of food called Prism that was good food at a reasonable price but after the transfer of ownership the quality suffered.
http://www.hilarywatson.com/cereals.pdf
Sources? Sure. right here...



The Use of Sorghum and Corn as Alternatives to Rice in Dog Foods
Leanne N. Twomey3, David W. Pethick, James B. Rowe*, Mingan Choct*, John R. Pluske, Wendy Brown* and Maria C. Laviste†

Division of Veterinary and Biomedical Sciences, Murdoch University, Murdoch WA, Australia;; * Animal Science, The University of New England, Armidale NSW, Australia and; † Uncle Ben’s of Australia, Wodonga Vic, Australia


Rice is commonly used in premium Australian dog foods because of its highly digestible and hypoallergenic nature.
Sorghum and corn are grains available in Australia that are considerably less expensive than rice.
Sorghum and corn are known to contain starch that is less digestible in the intestinal tract because of a strong starch–protein matrix; however, the extrusion process involved in the manufacture of dog food is likely to gelatinize the starch and make it more digestible.
The purpose of this study was to evaluate fecal nutrient digestibility of diets containing rice, sorghum and corn, and to determine the effect these diets had on fecal quality through evaluation of fecal score.

The fecal protein and gross energy digestibility coefficients were highest with the rice diet, followed by the sorghum and corn diets, suggesting that the rice diet was the most digestible (1). The higher gross energy digestibility of the rice diet resulted in the increased digestible energy content of the rice diet compared to that of the corn and sorghum diets (P < 0.001). The fat digestibility of the rice diet was also greater than that of the corn and sorghum diets (P < 0.01) (Table 2).


The fecal protein and gross energy digestibility coefficients were highest with the rice diet, followed by the sorghum and corn diets, suggesting that the rice diet was the most digestible (1). The higher gross energy digestibility of the rice diet resulted in the increased digestible energy content of the rice diet compared to that of the corn and sorghum diets (P < 0.001). The fat digestibility of the rice diet was also greater than that of the corn and sorghum diets (P < 0.01) (Table 2).



Corn products in dog food.
The presence of corn products - particularly if they are high on the list of ingredients - may indicate that corn has been used instead of a more expensive alternative. About 25% of the corn produced in the U.S. today is genetically modified.
Corn is more difficult to digest either by humans or dogs.

Corn gluten meal in dog food. Corn gluten meal is a concentrated source of protein that can be substituted for costlier animal protein. In many bargain dry dog foods, corn gluten meal provides a large proportion or the total protein in the food rather than more digestible forms of protein such as meat.'


Corn is crap by and large, especially with todays farming agrifarm practices: and not easily digested by dogs OR humans..

Re: Corn based Dog food

Posted: Fri Aug 26, 2011 2:07 am
by Trueblue
Give us the link to your sources.So we can read it ourselves.

Re: Corn based Dog food

Posted: Sat Aug 27, 2011 12:02 am
by BoarHunter1
Trueblue wrote:Give us the link to your sources.So we can read it ourselves.
Its common knowledge that corn is not that digestible.
Have you eaten corn and gone the bathroom?
In animals its the same.
Dogs with Digestion issues are advised BY Vets to go on Lamb and rice feeds. Why?
We all know, The blind, it seems does not know. Corn is a cheap filler, nothing else.
What you feed your dogs is your business, but dont p*ss on my leg and tell me its raining.



'Digestibility depends on quality and type of grain used: rice is for example more digestible than wheat or corn.
Dogs can absorb the digestible carbohydrates from rice nearly entirely, of the other grains about 20% are not absorbed. Indigestible fiber from grains contribute to intestinal health.'


'As a whole grain, corn is not easily digestible.
Unless the kernel is first refined into a meal or a flour (and then cooked), corn can be very difficult for a dog to digest.
As a matter of fact, corn (and other grains) are only digestible to the extent to which they’re processed.
That’s why even though the grain may be listed as “whole” on a pet food label, it’s nearly always first ground before being cooked into kibble.
And the finer it’s ground, the more digestible corn will be. But also, the higher its glycemic index.'





The Truth About Corn in Dog Food
by Mike Sagman

Myths About Corn Promoted
by the Pet Food Industry


Makers and sellers of corn-based foods insist the negative stories about corn are simply unsubstantiated myths and rumors spread around the Internet by simple-minded consumers.
The truth is, the pet food industry itself is guilty of disseminating its own self-serving and myth-based distortions, too.

In fact, most of the exaggerated claims extolling the virtues of corn actually originate within the pet food industry and are unwittingly propagated by naive and well-meaning pet owners.
Here are some of the most enduring myths about corn promoted by makers and sellers of corn-based dog foods.

Myth #1
Corn Has a Low Glycemic Index

The glycemic index is a way of measuring the tendency of a specific food to raise the blood sugar level of an animal. The higher the index, the greater the risk of an unhealthy rise in blood sugar.

Here are the actual glycemic index figures1 for a few common dog food grains…2

* Corn meal (69)
* Brown rice (55)
* Corn (53)
* Oatmeal (49)
* Wheat (41)
* Barley (25)

Compared to most other cereal grains used for making dog food, corn does not have a low glycemic index.

Myth #2
Corn Does Not Cause Allergies

Cheerleaders for corn-based products like to point out that corn is one of the least allergenic ingredients in dog food.

In any case, although it may not be a common food allergen, corn still cannot be completely excused as a potential cause.
When searching the Internet for these studies, it’s hard not to notice the thousands of legitimate reports by owners, breeders, forums and veterinary sites reporting corn and other cereal grains as a likely cause of their dogs’ allergies.

And then there’s the (very real) issue of cereal grain quality.
In many cases, problems aren’t so much a matter of allergies to the corn itself but rather to undetected contaminants within that grain.

It’s not unusual to find storage mites, their droppings and expired carcasses in bulk lots of feed grains. And all of these are known to be notable canine allergens.
So, for these reasons (and until proven otherwise), we believe corn should still be considered a reasonable suspect when investigating the cause of any food-related canine allergy.



Myth #3
Corn Is Highly Digestible

As a whole grain, corn is not easily digestible. Unless the kernel is first refined into a meal or a flour (and then cooked), corn can be very difficult for a dog to digest.

As a matter of fact, corn (and other grains) are only digestible to the extent to which they’re processed.
That’s why even though the grain may be listed as “whole” on a pet food label, it’s nearly always first ground before being cooked into kibble.

And the finer it’s ground, the more digestible corn will be. But also, the higher its glycemic index.
However, to the uninformed, the pet food industry’s claim that corn is “99% digestible” can be misleading. It’s easy to innocently take that statement to mean corn has a high nutritional value, too.
Unfortunately, as you’ll see, that is simply not the case.


Myth #4
Corn Has a High Biological Value

There’s nothing unique enough about corn’s content that makes it a nutritional standout… nothing that can’t be found in, or converted from, some other ingredient. Not even protein.
And to those who insist the protein content of a corn kernel has some important biological value we present the following table…7

Dog Food Ingredients and Their Biological Value
When it comes to its protein usability, corn has a measurably lower biological value.


Myth #5
Corn Is Rich in Vitamins and Minerals

Fans of corn also like to claim the grain is high in anti-oxidants and minerals.
High in anti-oxidants and minerals? Compared to what?

Aside from its energy content, corn’s nutritional completeness is certainly not exceptional.
The Nutrient Balance Completeness Score is a measure of how complete a food is with respect to vitamin, mineral and dietary fiber content. The higher the score of a food, the more complete its nutrients.

According to information gathered by NutritionData.com8 from the USDA’s National Nutrient Database for Standard Reference, the Completeness Score for corn and a number of other common ingredients are listed here in increasing nutritional value…

* Brown rice (33)
* Corn (34)
* Barley (36)
* Oats (43)
* Quinoa (45)
* Wheat (48)
* Potato (51)
* Peas (53)
* Sweet potato (55)
* Spinach (91)

So, when it comes to judging its vitamin and mineral content, corn is relatively unremarkable.

The Truth About Corn
So, why is corn used so abundantly in the manufacture of today’s commercial dog foods?
Well, as you’ve just seen, surely not because it could be considered more nutritious.
Then, could corn be “more natural”?

When you study a dog’s natural ancestral history, you won’t find any mention of corn. That is, until the year 1956. For that was the year indelibly marked by the invention of kibble.
So, why did the introduction of kibble bring with it such a dramatic rise in the use of corn in making dog food? What suddenly made carbohydrates (like corn, grains and potatoes) so popular with the pet food industry?

The truth is…

* Carbohydrates are cheap
* Carbohydrates are vital to the kibbling process

You won’t find corn in commercial dog food because it contributes some unique nutritional property. No, it’s there simply because it supplies cheap calories to the product.


And starchy carbohydrates play a critical role in a process known as gelatinization… which is absolutely crucial to the workings of kibble machinery.

As proof, how often do you find corn in a raw or canned dog food?

The Bottom Line

In a nutshell, corn makes any pet food you find it in less expensive to produce. And it does this by diluting a recipe’s more costly meat ingredients.

Kibble is simply inexpensive fast food for dogs. And that’s OK. Because corn doesn’t just save money for manufacturers. It also makes dog food more affordable for pet owners, too.

However, to advertise that corn is included in commercial dog food mainly for its nutritional benefits is irresponsible and a gross misrepresentation of the facts.

To some manufacturers, it may seem OK for a dog food to contain corn. But it’s not OK to make such outrageous claims and excuses for its presence in a deceptive attempt to mislead consumers or to justify its contrived nutritional value.

1. Based upon human studies, canine figures unavailable ↩
2. Brand-Miller J et al, The Glycemic Index Foundation, “The New Glucose Revolution”, New York (2003), pp.291-296 ↩
3. Fadok V (1994), “Diagnosing and Managing the Food Allergic Dog”, The Compendium 16:12, 1541-1544 ↩
4. Roudebush P, “Ingredients associated with adverse food reactions in dogs and cats”, Adv Small Anim Med Surg 2002;15(9):1-3 ↩
5. Chesney, C.J., 2001, “Systematic review of evidence for the prevalence of food sensitivity in dogs”, Veterinary Record, 148:445–448 ↩
6. Extension Entomologists, North Central States, Federal Extension Service, U.S. Department of Agriculture ↩
7. Palika, Liz, The Consumers Guide to Dog Food, New York, Howell Book House, 1996 ↩
8. NutritionData.com ↩

http://www.dogfoodadvisor.com/dog-food- ... food-corn/

Re: Corn based Dog food

Posted: Sat Aug 27, 2011 1:46 am
by Trueblue
:)