BigGameHoundsmen.com

A lead dog runs to catch every race and is at every bayup or tree (no excuses)..
Watch that dog on your GPS and you will know what dogs are hanging back and not pushing the game up or runnning to catch the game.

Use your GPS it doesn't lie, you will know what dogs catch the game and what dogs show-up after the game is already caught. The dogs that are actually catching the game and are there start to finish are your lead dog/dogs.

Thank you fellas. I was hoping to get plenty of input. Kordog's comment struck a chord with me, and I think everybody else feels the same that replied. Either he is a lead dog, a young potential lead dog, or he is a cull. I think there is something to be said about how to remedy the me-too syndrome, or, at least try and prevent it, but I guess that is a whole other topic.

I get a kick out these posts, but I got my answer to "What makes a lead dog"

On the internet, Mostly Bullshit.

In the woods, lots and lots of tracks.

It always sounds good to cull dogs that aren't lead or going to be lead dogs, but it's usually a little bit more complex than that. It all depends on what you want/need them for. Or even better yet what they are being put with. All of mine are pack dogs when put with certain dogs. The other dogs are better, I know it, and it doesn't bother me one bit. In other situations they might be the lead dog.

Dogs that are consistantly in the right spots, doing what they should and ending up where they need to be (in reasonable time) are going to have a spot in my yard. In reality unless you have an exceptional talent, the lead dog window is pretty small. It's either a little too young to take over the lead dog or it's lost a step and can't quite keep up to the new young gun. Just the way it is. If it's not you've either got that freak irreplaceable dog OR your prospects don't have what you thought they did.

Thank you Nolte. I'm glad you got a kick out of my post. I'm even more glad that I dont have anybody close to visit with about hunting with dogs anymore, as they have all gone on to the Big Woods. You know, someone to ask these stupid questions. Instead, if I want an answer, I have to swallow my pride and post in writing on the internet for everyone to read. Well, I guess I could just do what the rest of the 600 visitors a day on this site do and just lurk waiting for some info.Thanks again.

i agree 100% with Nolte, i have young and old dogs that are both sometimes lead dogs, depends on 1,000 different reasons and tracks, if the question was best dog, maybe thats the old dog, or fastest dog, might be the young dog, up and coming. but i think a pack that is doing the job together is what i will always be looking to get, not just one dog that out does the others in the yard...a lead dog i would think can do it all with or with out help,but may be a pack dog one day and a lead the next. jmo

tomtom,

My "kick" isn't from you asking the question. It was from some of the responses. They are all usually very similiar. It's usually keep dogs that do it all, all the time and get rid of the rest. There is apparently some deep pool on the internet where these dogs come from. This pool usually comes from guys who are trying to convince you to buy a dog OR that they are the best.

By now I'm sure that you think I'm a smart ass idiot. Which is fine by me, because mostly I am. But that doesn't change the fact that top exceptional dogs are RARE. If you really have one, consider yourself damn lucky. Enjoy it, hunt the crap out of it and have fun enjoying the memories. The rest of the time you'll be hunting a less caliber of dog and hopefully still be catching some game.

A lead dog is simply the best one you've got in the box on any given day. If it can get it done on that day, on that track you're probably doing better than most.

If you really want good info. Search out somebody in your area who is catching a bunch of game. If they'll let you buy them a cup of coffee and chew the fat for a couple hours, you will be light years ahead listening to a normal 9-5er like me.

The lead dog is the one that always gets put down on a track first.That's why he is the lead dog,because he has had more opportunity to hone is skills than the others that are always left in the box.He becomes more reliable because he has more experience.Usually one dog proves to be a little better so the others in the box get neglected.That is the way it goes 90% of the time and there is a reason for that.Most guys are hard working 9 to 5 types that unfortunately do not have a lot of time to spend in the woods.When they finally get there on the weekend they don't want to waste a bunch of time messing with dogs that don't or can't get it done so they put down old reliable first and turn the rest in later.Their time is limited so they have to use the most effective means to get game in the tree.This is perfectly understandable but it is not a recipe that will establish a box full of dogs that are more or less equal in ability or lead dogs.Usually people who hunt this way are screwed when something happens to their lead dog and their catch percentage goes way down.To have a box full of lead dogs takes someone who is more interested in training dogs than catching game.Relying more upon your less experienced dogs will mean a momentary reduction in your success but in the long term it will increase your success rate.Dogs don't have to be "top notch once in a lifetime dogs" to be lead dogs they just have to be capable of being complete from truck to tree.That's all.Dogs like that aren't hard to find, you just need to have the time to MAKE them.Some guys do and some don't.For most people it really does come down to the amount of time that they have available to spend with their dogs in the woods.I have been more fortunate than most in that department and I have learned that box full of lead dogs is possible and not that hard to achieve,it just takes time and a lot of it ! In no way am I trying to brag on my dogs as they are all just pretty average...no world beaters...but I have had the time to work with them all and make them all dogs that I can rely on to get the job done.Not all hounds have it in them to be complete from A to Z and you have to weed those out along the way IF you want a pack of dogs that are all capable.Some guys don't mind having a pack of dogs that are role players where each member serves a different function and together they work as a team and get the job done.There is nothing wrong with that.There is more than one way to skin a cat,I just prefer my way.

So,my answer to your question,"What makes a lead dog ?" YOU do.

TrueBlue,

I am nearly in complete agreement with you. Most people won't sacrifice success to give other dogs a shot. Heck I am guilty myself, but I think a guy has to give those chances. At some point you will be anyway so it's nice to have an idea what you've got before you are forced to only have that option.

I think my only disagreement in what you said is this. Those other dogs might be lead type dogs, but in any group of dogs one is going to be better. The difference might be very slight but one is always going to have a little more of something. Heck, I can't even get uniformity in the same litter or same cross litters, so getting a uniform "across the board" pack is pretty tough. But it all goes back to what a guy finds as acceptable to consider lead type. Is it 90%, 75%, 50% of tracks. It all just depends. Heck even the best out there might only get you 15%(or less) if terrain or conditions are brutal. It might even be the conditions as to which "lead" dog is going to be the best. Some dogs can trail down roads with ease but will put the brakes on if they have to cross a river on a filthy cold track. Others will swim like an otter to check out the other side of a river but won't range out 100 yards across a burnt off slash.

While our methods, limitations and resources have all changed the one main factor has/will always remain the same. To make dogs you've got to get them on tracks, tracks and more tracks. The more they're on the better they get, OR you find you need to get something else.

Nolte wrote:TrueBlue,

BI am nearly in complete agreement with you. Most people won't sacrifice success to give other dogs a shot. Heck I am guilty myself, but I think a guy has to give those chances. At some point you will be anyway so it's nice to have an idea what you've got before you are forced to only have that option.

I think my only disagreement in what you said is this. Those other dogs might be lead type dogs, but in any group of dogs one is going to be better. The difference might be very slight but one is always going to have a little more of something. Heck, I can't even get uniformity in the same litter or same cross litters, so getting a uniform "across the board" pack is pretty tough. .

I never meant to convey that all my dogs are created equal,that would be impossible.What I meant is that they are all capable of doing the job in their own way.A lead dog is not one that is always in the front, it is one that you can depend on day in and day out to get the job done.You are correct when you said that "there is always going to be one that has a little more of something"but probably not a little more of everything.All dogs have strengths and weaknesses depending on the circumstances.Just because one dog may be faster than another or colder nosed than another or whatever doesn't necessarily make them better it just makes them different and those differences may make one shine more than the rest on any given day.

gee whiz nolte your a little hard on everybody .i certainly can appreciate a good pack dog bear hunting .one that adds and doesnt detract to the catch.that doesnt make it the lead dog just a valuable member of the pack .its the dogs that dont add and never will we can all do without.now if im training a coondog it better learn to tree its own coon or yes it will be culled im not going to run two dogs because they cant do the work of one on them. there are some dogs and i dont care how much you run them are just going to be pack dogs on bear nolte .they are still welcome in my yard .there are certainly plenty that dont make even decent pack dogs on ol blackie . hope your in a better mood tommorrow i usually enjoy reading what you have to say .

kordog,

You are correct. I was in a bad mood yesterday. I found out they upped the 30 packs of natural light by 50 cents. Now how am I going to afford a skin mag too.

I just get tired of hearing about all these worldbeaters out there. (Not saying anyone said that on this thread but just the tone in general most times on here) While guys I know who hunt pretty darn hard and put in a bunch of time are having a tough go finding dogs with the right stuff in them. It takes a pile of time and tracks to train a dog, if you got one with the right stuff.

I guess it all just boils down to criteria. My definition for a lead dog is the one you (or the guys you hunt with) pull out first when you've got that dandy trophy track to try. It's not dogs that can get it done most of the time by themselves.

I also get a little riled up with the way guys downgrad "pack" dogs. My view is they are valuable assets to a team, not just some dog that will follow along and make a tree. Most times when a guy is selling a "pack" dog it is junk. Heck many times guys selling a lead dog, it's pure junk. You'd have to look long and hard to find more crooked guys than dog peddlers. You'd probably have to go to the capitol building or law office to find one.

The lead dog is the one that always gets put down on a track first.That's why he is the lead dog,because he has had more opportunity to hone is skills than the others that are always left in the box.He becomes more reliable because he has more experience.

this is very very true and more common than one thinks. i am guilty just as much as anyone. the only way i found out about a little female i have is because i ran over my other dog that i was always starting tracks with. this year i will have some pups to try and i am going to make myself rotate on who starts. if one doesn't take it i will try the next. if none of them take it i will move on to the next track i guess. on the next track someone else will get to try first.

Im as guilty as putting one dog down more on a bear strike than anyone but I for one will not keep a dog that cant strike and start his/her own bear. I have seen it happen too many times (even not being in this hound hunting business long) where a guy loses his "lead dog" and cant strike or start a bear, same goes with cats. I have a couple that may be a little better than the other but they better be able to do it on their own too, all have caught their own bear too or are young started dogs that have at least started their own track. I think too much emphasis is put on a lead dog too but I am just as guilty as anyone else. I would also have to agree its the first dog you drop or put down on a track which you intend to catch, where your chances go up from another dog who you might think can start the track but maybe not finish it? That dog would probably be classified as a pack dog but may add to the pack elsewhere. Hell all of mine are pack dogs!

Trueblue wrote:The lead dog is the one that always gets put down on a track first.That's why he is the lead dog,because he has had more opportunity to hone is skills than the others that are always left in the box.He becomes more reliable because he has more experience.Usually one dog proves to be a little better so the others in the box get neglected.That is the way it goes 90% of the time and there is a reason for that.Most guys are hard working 9 to 5 types that unfortunately do not have a lot of time to spend in the woods.When they finally get there on the weekend they don't want to waste a bunch of time messing with dogs that don't or can't get it done so they put down old reliable first and turn the rest in later.Their time is limited so they have to use the most effective means to get game in the tree.This is perfectly understandable but it is not a recipe that will establish a box full of dogs that are more or less equal in ability or lead dogs.Usually people who hunt this way are screwed when something happens to their lead dog and their catch percentage goes way down.To have a box full of lead dogs takes someone who is more interested in training dogs than catching game.Relying more upon your less experienced dogs will mean a momentary reduction in your success but in the long term it will increase your success rate.Dogs don't have to be "top notch once in a lifetime dogs" to be lead dogs they just have to be capable of being complete from truck to tree.That's all.Dogs like that aren't hard to find, you just need to have the time to MAKE them.Some guys do and some don't.For most people it really does come down to the amount of time that they have available to spend with their dogs in the woods.I have been more fortunate than most in that department and I have learned that box full of lead dogs is possible and not that hard to achieve,it just takes time and a lot of it ! In no way am I trying to brag on my dogs as they are all just pretty average...no world beaters...but I have had the time to work with them all and make them all dogs that I can rely on to get the job done.Not all hounds have it in them to be complete from A to Z and you have to weed those out along the way IF you want a pack of dogs that are all capable.Some guys don't mind having a pack of dogs that are role players where each member serves a different function and together they work as a team and get the job done.There is nothing wrong with that.There is more than one way to skin a cat,I just prefer my way.

So,my answer to your question,"What makes a lead dog ?" YOU do.

I don't think it could be exlained any better! good job. to add to that I have had some of those 2nd or third string dogs go to another pack, usually some one starting out. within a short amount of time that dog is as good or better than my lead dog. because he got the chance to shine.

well nolte there is always cheaper beer or skin mags ,but either or could leave a bad after taste lol .these really are trying times . hang in there nolte we made it to 2012 despite what some thought . it cant be all bad .