Page 2 of 5

Re: MONTANA SPORTMEN FOR FISH AND WILDLIFE

Posted: Sat Feb 04, 2012 7:02 pm
by ez street
Before you join you should check out http://www.monstermuleys.com or http://www.coueswhitetail.com do a search on SFW and see what the hunters of Arizona think about SFW. They tried to make a midnight grab of several hundred big game tags so SFW could auction them off to the highest bidder and anyone who hunts AZ knows how valuable and coveted these tags are. If your buying AZ points year after year and trying to get an AZ tag then the wealthy could have bought these tags jumpping to the front of the line makeing your odds much worse than they already are in AZ. This was all done on the QT at night and the congressman they had in their pocket is now faceing a sh#@ storm over it from many voting outdoorsman in AZ.

Re: MONTANA SPORTMEN FOR FISH AND WILDLIFE

Posted: Sun Feb 05, 2012 5:46 am
by Terry L. Zink
Hey, no matter what club or group we as houndsmen belong to, you have must not be selfish. Right now we can not be lion protectionest here in montana, we are losing what the lions eat, ungulates, yes because of the wolves, thats where you think of your kids and the generations after that. So even if we over harvested the hell out of the lions, lions will come back, sorry but true. Now if we don't take care of our ungulates, there won't be any lions to hunt either sooner or later. This what all of us as houndsmen have to think like, say this to yourself, decimation to restroration.

Re: MONTANA SPORTMEN FOR FISH AND WILDLIFE

Posted: Sun Feb 05, 2012 2:15 pm
by BIGBLUES
I don't think fwp should go crazy with there lion management but I do believe there needs to be a little more harvest. Its really nice being able to go out and run a couple lions a day with good conditions. I think the hybrid system will work as long as they don't get greedy like they did with the cow elk harvest in the bitterroots. The main issue is the wolves, and this is what Montana sfw's focus is. If you like to hunt any kind of game than you can't go wrong supporting this organization. It is set up for people like us to protect us. I know nothing about Utah or New Mexico or where ever, but I know some of the people that make up Montana sfw and they have the same goals and beliefs as I do on our game. Thanks

Re: MONTANA SPORTMEN FOR FISH AND WILDLIFE

Posted: Tue Feb 07, 2012 12:36 am
by larry
Terry L. Zink wrote:Hey, no matter what club or group we as houndsmen belong to, you have must not be selfish. Right now we can not be lion protectionest here in montana, we are losing what the lions eat, ungulates, yes because of the wolves, thats where you think of your kids and the generations after that. So even if we over harvested the hell out of the lions, lions will come back, sorry but true. Now if we don't take care of our ungulates, there won't be any lions to hunt either sooner or later. This what all of us as houndsmen have to think like, say this to yourself, decimation to restroration.


I guess thats one way to look at it, but probably not a very good one. Lions don't have a very big part to play in the loss of the ugulate equation, so instead of throwing them under the bus with the wolves, like they did in Jefferson cnty, lets focus on the wolves and leave the lions alone, thats what houndsmen need to think alike on.

Lets not so easily forget that BIGBLUES likes to let his dogs stretch 40 lb kittens and then post pics of it on FB, he's made it pretty clear he's all about killing, from that topic to this one.

Re: MONTANA SPORTMEN FOR FISH AND WILDLIFE

Posted: Tue Feb 07, 2012 11:13 pm
by Badlandcat
Hey I am 50 I don't have the time to wait for the lions to come back after we needlessly kill them!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Lets do something about the fricking 5 week rifle season and the 7 doe tages first.
I say lets get rid of all the damn deer hunters with dogs and let the houndsmen be.

Re: MONTANA SPORTMEN FOR FISH AND WILDLIFE

Posted: Fri Feb 17, 2012 12:42 pm
by hounddude
This is off Bowsite. This is how I see it.


AS I get older (56 in a few days) I'm starting to see things differently. My interest in "all things hunting" and how I now perceive them and how they affect us, is the result of watching and listening to Randy Newberg of On Your Own Adventures. He is an advocate for all hunters and is well versed on the inner workings of the Wolf Issue. He is also a strong advocate for RMEF and has done some PR work for them.

He is currently at the sports show In SLC. The "money maker" for SFW. The following are his comments. I don't think he will mind my posting them here. I doubt he would do it himself unless there was a topic already in place, he doesn't seek publicity.

It's a very good read, well written and since I'm posting it here, obviously made an impact on me.

A link to the thread:

http://onyourownadventures.com/hunttalk ... p?t=249798

============

Quote: Originally Posted by Dinkshooter View Post

Anyone else thinking Lawnboy, Fin and SFW are having dinner tonight?

////

Well, Fin was there. Was kindly treated to the dinner by the MDF folks. Left once the music started.

Wonder if I was the only person laughing at the irony of Shane Mahoney making one of his finest presentations. In that presentation, he bragged about the US, our history and how the principles that made our country so admired by others (Mahoney being Canadian) was achieved by keeping true to the ideals of the commoner. Then bringing that forward to how conservation in this country was founded by involving all citizens as equal participants and equal beneficiaries.

Following his long, but very eloquent speech was an auction where Denny Austad paid $150K+ for the Antelope Island mule deer tag, along with many other tags selling for over $40K. The usual suspects bidding on behalf of their clients who have found a way to not have to wait in the line, and by continuing to buy these tags, finance the operations that continue to provide them a path to the front of the line, any time they want to buy it.

Just seemed weird to see the commoners cheering as their wildlife bounty was once again, sold time and again, to the same people, year after year, all under the guise of conservation. I wondered how many, among the hundreds in that room, noticed the irony of that.

Maybe I have become too jaded in my views. Following the auction, I thanked my hosts and walked across the street, on up to my room. On my way, I wondered what the state of hunting will look like if those of us who have a platform to speak out about what we are seeing happen in this western states, fail to do so. If we sit on our hands, worried about pressure placed on our sponsors by those who we might challenge in their actions and motives.

Tomorrow night will be more of the same. If anything, they save the best of the best for the Saturday night auction. They will sell another Henry's rifle deer tag. One sold tonight. I am not sure how many total rifle tags are issued for the Henrys, but a good percentage of them were sold today.

Yesterday I watched the former Director of AK Fish and Game, an SFW plant who resigned when accused of 12 hunting violations, walk the show floor. Then watch the AK Bison Governors tag get sold this weekend, along with the AK Governors Koyokuk moose tag. I wonder how much of that money will do any good for AK bison or moose, or if the funds will get siphoned off in selling commissions of 10% and allowed administrative fees of who knows how much? Yet, we can rest well, knowing that another "savior of conservation" broke out his check book to make sure he would not be taking up any space in the waiting line with the rest of us.

Went and brushed my teeth an extra time tonight, but still have a strange taste in my mouth. Probably best that I declined my invitation to a private cocktail party where all winning bidders and other VIPs from this evening would be invited to attend and socialize. Decided to save my socializing for those folks who stop by the booth tomorrow to will tell me how many years they have applied in UT, and have yet to draw their resident elk tag.

/////

I am at the awards dinner. The food is great, but I think I will puke if this continues. I just learned that BGF/SFW introduced legislation that resulted in wolf delisting. Thankfully, most are not clapping as many know the truth.

/////

Following dinner, I left. I left disappointed by so many who sat silent while this ridiculous circus act transpired. Who went on stage and participated in a partisan pile of deceit beyond what most minds could even conjure.

I spent the last hour and a half writing my thoughts on the debacle, but figured I better sleep on this one before I post it. Too disgusted right now to post something so critical of those who were accomplices to this assault on conservation.

/////

As I stated previously, following dinner, I left. Not sure if I was more disappointed or disgusted. Disappointed in those who did nothing when the opportunity was presented, or disgusted by the counterfeit statements provided by Ryan Benson of Big Game Forever.

Benson's mash was a frontal assault on the history of what hunting and conservation have always been. A craft of partisanship that drags hunting and conservation even further into the ugly abyss of politics. Truly disgusting for anyone who separates their politics from the more important topics of hunting and conservation.

He carefully selected words to give everyone the impression that it was H.R 509, a bill sponsored by the handpicked pals of BGF/SFW, as being the reason for MT and ID getting delisting. That bill, the SFW/BGF silver bullet, was "Dead on Arrival." It was introduced in January 2011 and has not even had a committee vote, let alone a floor vote or a full Congressional vote. A bill that was dead before the ink dried on the first draft. A bill that is dead in a committee was provided as the reason we have delisting. Laughable by any standard.

He thanked all 60 sponsors of that empty piece of legislation. Then Benson went on to say that without these brave members of Congress who sponsored their bill, the delisting in MT and ID could not have happened. And that the recent delisting in MN, WI, and MI would not have been possible.

What? Someone please tell me I heard him incorrectly. Nope, he connected the dots in that manner.

All of this, while he failed to tell the audience that Big Game Forever and Sportsman For Wildlife were doing everything in their power to kill the real bill that got delisting in Montana and Idaho - the Simpson-Tester rider attached to the budget bill of April, 2011. He never used the words Simpson or Tester.

The groups Benson is associated with worked to kill that rider from the budget bill. They got caught red handed and have been in defense mode ever since. If they had succeeded in killing that bill, we would not be hunting wolves in MT and ID. We would not have delisting in MN, WI, and MI.

BGF/SFW claimed Simpson-Tester would sabotage the delisting possibility in MN. WI, MI. Yet, even though they worked to kill MT and ID delisting, and they were 100% wrong about the outcome in the Great Lakes states, Benson rambled on that BGF/SFW and their friends were the reason we have this delisted status.

He used his Harvard pedigree wordsmithing to make a mockery of the real work that got delisting in all of these states. And as always is the case with SFW/BGF, he took credit for things they did not do, and in this case, took credit for the results of a delisting bill they tried to stop.

He thanked a long list of people who have done nothing for the average hunter or for conservation. And he purposefully omitted those who did the heavy lifting. No big surprise there.

Benson did not mention the two people who stuck their necks out and actually got us delisting and started the momentum for the Great Lakes states. Representative Mike Simpson, a Republican from Idaho, who is the "Simpson" part of the Simpson-Tester bill that gave us delisting. Benson made no mention of Senator Jon Tester, a Democrat from Montana, the other sponsor of that rider.

It was that rider that ticked off all the wolf wingnuts, putting them at each other’s throat. It was that rider that gave MT and ID our wolf seasons, and set the path where the enviros would fold up the tent in MN, WI, MI.

Yet, he thanked Representative Denny Rehberg, a Montana Republican opposing Senator Tester in the November election. Benson failed to mention that Rehberg did nothing, absolutely nothing, to help the process of wolf delisting in Montana. A guy they look to as their plant in the Senate, if they can get him elected, the same way they viewed Corey Rossi as their plant in Alaska hunting politics. Rossi is now the FORMER AK G&F director, currently facing at last count, 12 hunting violations.

Rehberg is a Congressional member with a track record that is not very kind to resident Montana hunters. A guy who only now in an election year is trying to look the part of a hunter by hanging out with MT SFW and Montana Shooting Sport Association extremists.

Yesterday, SFW had a big fund raiser down here in Utah for Denny. Ryan Benson invited me to join him and the Congressman. I was busy. Rehberg was then walked around the building, being introduced to “Friends of SFW and BGF.”

And we wonder why hunting and conservation has become so politicized. Spiels such as Benson provided is why.

Benson's work last night was amateur hour when compared to the stirring appeal by Shane Mahoney the previous evening; a dissertation on the history of that got us to this point in conservation history. A true reflection on history, honesty, and commitment to what is right. The two presentations and their presenters seemed in stark contrast in terms of knowledge, sincerity, and expertise on the topic at hand. And, it showed.

We expect as much from SFW and BGF. They are without a doubt the most self-congratulatory group to ever hit the landscape of the west, disguised as hunting and conservation groups. Willing to use all tactics and deceit to spin the truth or to shower credit away from those deserving of accolades

To have others stand silent, paraded up on that stage, participating in the theatrics, all the while knowing this kind of fairy tale would be presented tonight, is my greatest source of disappointment. Those who let their good names be drawn through the mud by some backhanded political rant, is beyond disappointing. At least to those of us who had hope for the potential and promise that could have been. Silence while this kind of fable is pawned off as truth, results in accomplice that is unbecoming of the voice and platform some have.

Some were on that stage, blissfully ignorant of the facts. So removed from the battlefield, that they know not what team wears which uniform. Happy to be there and thinking they were helping the cause.

Others are fully aware of the facts. They were involved in many of the same discussions. They were included on emails, phone calls, and were asked to lobby on the issue.

It is the behavior of those knowledgeable of the truth that is so disappointing. Those who were aware of the deceit being spewed, yet stood on the stage, looking almost to be in pain, knowing in their hearts and minds, what was unfolding while they posed there.

Truth is truth. It cannot be changed. It can be spun, and such is the manner by which politics handles the truth. Some being far more talented at spinning the truth than telling the truth.

And as much as truth is truth; leaders lead, and lemmings follow. It became very clear today that some would prefer to be lemmings while following those who will lead them to them further away from the historical values that got us here.

Anyone; politician, conservation group, or business, that is tying their boat to the SFW/BGF ship, might want to take a look around at the wreckage now drifting up on the beach. Wreckage sanctioned and sponsored by BGF/SFW. And hopefully, followed by even more wreckage than can be salvaged by the leaders of that crew.

Re: MONTANA SPORTMEN FOR FISH AND WILDLIFE

Posted: Sat Feb 18, 2012 2:37 am
by black eye
hounddude,
Wow thats a mouth full. Most houndsmen have zero idea what was said there. Yet these are the same wolfs in sheeps clothing I have battled against for years now.

I watched the same speach from BGF recently in town during the "emergency mule deer" recovery meeting, and watched the same blind crowd cheer em on. SHAMEFUL!!!

SURELY the future of our sport is heading toward big $$$$$$ not tradition.

Back to the original post, any houndsmen excited for this group to come and set up in your state is in for a huge surprise.

Re: MONTANA SPORTMEN FOR FISH AND WILDLIFE

Posted: Thu Mar 15, 2012 12:51 pm
by BIGBLUES
Now onto the Wolf issue. “SFW/Big Game Forever repeatedly asked other national organizations to join the wolf delisting effort beginning in early 2010. These groups and many other "experts" repeatedly said it couldn't be done; some even were worried "that we would upset the environmentalists" and that "the wrong party controlled the White House and the Senate." SFW/BGF set about getting support from Congress; in 2010 HR 6028 and S 3919 were introduced to provide for delisting of the gray wolf. Working with Western and Midwestern state organizations, an incredible amount of pressure was brought to bear. Congress responded by making this a hotly debated issue, particularly among western Senators and Congressmen. As a result, wolves were debated on the very last days of Congress in 2010. It appeared that an initial delisting would occur in Congress in 2010, however wolf-delisting negotiations broke down in the final hours of the last two days in which Congress was in session. SFW/BGF built on the 2010 momentum in Congress with HR 509 and S 249 in 2011 once again calling for National Delisting. The bills, co-sponsored by more than 60 Representatives and Senators and representing 32 states, continued to increase the momentum necessary for action on wolf delisting. Wolf Delisting was hitting a high pitch in DC when SFW/BGF convened a meeting in Washington in February 16, 2011, bringing together representatives from a cross-section of wildlife and sportsmen groups, the Farm Bureau, Cattlemen. It appeared that a multi-state deal was very close and efforts were commenced to include Arizona in the deal as well. These efforts were largely halted when Idaho Representative Mike Simpson, amended the first Continuing Resolution Bill to obtain delisting in Idaho and Montana. While portions of Oregon, Washington and a sliver of Utah were included as part of the delisted Distinct Population Segment, the Simpson language amounted to a deal for Idaho and Montana. In particular, the bill required "approved management plans" to manage wolf populations to protect other wildlife which clearly was targeted to just Idaho and Montana. National wildlife organizations endorsed Congressman Simpson's amendment (which later became known as the Simpson/Tester amendment) in addition to S 249 and HR 509. This action immediately switched the focus from national delisting as Congress turned it's attention to the bill which is now included as part of the continuing resolution to fund the government. SFW/BGF worked for the last several weeks to improve upon the two state delisting and was able to provide some safe harbor language for Wyoming due primarily to perceived inequities of reversing a favorable court ruling for Wyoming's plan. No additional improvements were provided. End Result: The Simpson amendment prevailed - not because of the work done by national organizations- rather because of the extensive support for Congressional delisting built over the last year. It is apparent that key Senators in the Democratic majority passed the Simpson/Tester amendment in response to the groundwork that had been laid for national wolf delisting by SFW/BGF. When well known national organizations capitulated to political pressure and supported all options, these members of Congress felt they had sufficient political support from the sportsmen community to pass a watered-down bill. While Congressional intervention to provide for lasting wolf delisting is an important symbolic step in the right direction, it is clear that the bill did not solve the issue for 48 states. We are grateful SFW/BGF was not afraid to take on the fight and build the firestorm to ensure some level of wolf delisting. I am proud to have been a part of their effort and know from where I speak because I was in the belly of the beast as things were unfolding and witnessed this incredible happening."

Re: MONTANA SPORTMEN FOR FISH AND WILDLIFE

Posted: Thu Mar 15, 2012 1:22 pm
by FullCryHounds
Before anyone makes the decision to join this group, DO YOUR RESEARCH! This group had a horrible track record with almost everything they get involved with. They're mission is to steal as many high dollar draw tags as they can get and auction them off to fill thier own pockets. They want every predator including lions killed to protect thier high dollar auction tag animals. Follow the money, every decicion they make comes down to how much money they can make.

Re: MONTANA SPORTMEN FOR FISH AND WILDLIFE

Posted: Sat Mar 17, 2012 4:53 pm
by Lost River
This post is about MONTANA Sportsmen for Wildlife. 99% of the comments are about things that UTAH SFW has done. I was very actively involved in MONTANA for about two years. I can tell you what the MONTANA organization is trying to accomplish is completely different that the things that have been done. The MONTANA members have not interest in most of the things that were done in UTAH. I encourage everyone that is MONTANA to do their research on what we have been doing and our organizations works, not what UTAH has been doing. Again, MONTANA has our own bi-laws and goals. If the MONTANA SFW was not a free and independant organization and working toward better management of our PUBLICLY owned wildlife I would not be a member. I have maded the statement I would not give up the hunting oppurtunty and the 30 elk I have shot (none of them trophies) to shoot just one monster, and I can tell you the rest of the membership I have worked with are of the same opinion. We are NOT trying to grab any tags, we are NOT trying to turn this state into a draw tag state for trophy hunting and NONE of us are willing to sit around and wait 10 or 15 years to get a tag just so we can be on a trophy hunt. PLEASE actively seek out a MONTANA member and see what we are doing here in MONTANA. I promise you, if there was any move for the type of draw and ranching for wildlife in UTAH I would be the first one on every web forum I could and screaming and yelling. I would also be doing everything I can to tell members and either fix that problem or get members to cancel and take their support elsewhere.
Casey

Re: MONTANA SPORTMEN FOR FISH AND WILDLIFE

Posted: Sun Mar 18, 2012 2:00 am
by Badlandcat
Their track record in all of the other states they have infected is $hit. We don't need them here.

Re: MONTANA SPORTMEN FOR FISH AND WILDLIFE

Posted: Sun Mar 18, 2012 9:24 pm
by hounddude
Lost River wrote:This post is about MONTANA Sportsmen for Wildlife. 99% of the comments are about things that UTAH SFW has done. I was very actively involved in MONTANA for about two years. I can tell you what the MONTANA organization is trying to accomplish is completely different that the things that have been done. The MONTANA members have not interest in most of the things that were done in UTAH. I encourage everyone that is MONTANA to do their research on what we have been doing and our organizations works, not what UTAH has been doing. Again, MONTANA has our own bi-laws and goals. If the MONTANA SFW was not a free and independant organization and working toward better management of our PUBLICLY owned wildlife I would not be a member. I have maded the statement I would not give up the hunting oppurtunty and the 30 elk I have shot (none of them trophies) to shoot just one monster, and I can tell you the rest of the membership I have worked with are of the same opinion. We are NOT trying to grab any tags, we are NOT trying to turn this state into a draw tag state for trophy hunting and NONE of us are willing to sit around and wait 10 or 15 years to get a tag just so we can be on a trophy hunt. PLEASE actively seek out a MONTANA member and see what we are doing here in MONTANA. I promise you, if there was any move for the type of draw and ranching for wildlife in UTAH I would be the first one on every web forum I could and screaming and yelling. I would also be doing everything I can to tell members and either fix that problem or get members to cancel and take their support elsewhere.
Casey




Casey

If you don't want the Montana SFW compared to Utah SFW. Why did you use the SFW name. I've followed what they've done in several states. In my eyes it hasn't been good for sportsmen.

Mark

Re: MONTANA SPORTMEN FOR FISH AND WILDLIFE

Posted: Mon Mar 19, 2012 6:47 am
by Lost River
There is strength in numbers and the membership from other states were willing to help fight this wolf war. AT that time there were no large organizations out there that were willing to stand up and fight against this wolf debacle. Again, I restate, the Montana SFW formed to battle the issues we are facing with wolf problems and a severely declineing elk population. We are not bringing in anyone from out of state. What Utah SFW wants to do down there with management has nothing to do with what we want to accomplish, we just shared a common goal to get wolves managed by local and state agencies and not the federal gov. In Montana we want to promote healthy deer, elk, bear, and lion populations. We want long general seasons with lots of hunting oppurtunies. We already have special draw areas in the state and we don't need anymore. We are about promoting and increasing hunting oppurtunities. Like I said, if the Montana SFW organziation tried to change diresctions I would be the one yelling loudest from the mountain top.

Re: MONTANA SPORTMEN FOR FISH AND WILDLIFE

Posted: Mon Mar 19, 2012 6:48 am
by Lost River
Badlandcat wrote:Their track record in all of the other states they have infected is $hit. We don't need them here.


Curious what issues you are talking about?

Re: MONTANA SPORTMEN FOR FISH AND WILDLIFE

Posted: Mon Mar 19, 2012 6:49 am
by Lost River
FullCryHounds wrote:Before anyone makes the decision to join this group, DO YOUR RESEARCH! This group had a horrible track record with almost everything they get involved with. They're mission is to steal as many high dollar draw tags as they can get and auction them off to fill thier own pockets. They want every predator including lions killed to protect thier high dollar auction tag animals. Follow the money, every decicion they make comes down to how much money they can make.


Who's pockets are being lined? What tags have been "stolen"?