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Thomas ,i have been watching these wieghts on cats and bit my lip.Well now i know i'm not the only one, that smells fishy.
I have hunted lions for forty years here in Idaho and believe me.
We have huge skulls and big cats here.
I have wieghed some big femalesand know how to sex a cat.
Never female over 130lbs certified scale.
Nevever a tom over 183lbs.
Inever got all the big ones wieght because of location of kill,needed skinned first toback pack out.But dought any were 20lbs bigger on the toms and maybe 5lbs bigger on the females.

I won't pretend to be an expert but I know a little bit about this subject. The cat Brian Williams killed in Colorado was skinned in the field and no measurments were taken. When I talked to Mike Ray before he sent me the skin he said they estimated the cat to weigh 220 pounds. Out of all the lions I have handled if any of them was a 200 pounder that would be it. That cat, when salted had more hide than any other lion I have had my hands on. I have put up probably two dozen cougars that scored 15 8/16 or better and roughly sixty or seventy other booners and maybe one or two "could have weighed 200 pounds. There are very few places that consistantly produce cats over 180 pounds. Bergmans Rule generally holds true. The farther an animal lives from the equator the more body mass it needs to sustain life. Brians cat was an exception. Another 16" tom from from Alberta, treed by Gordon Burton may have been heavier. Even though this cat had a full belly, the pictures of it in the tree made it look like it had a pin head.
I get several calls each year from guys that just havested a 200 pound cat. The odds of this happening is about as likely as harvesting a 200" net typical whitetail. When I hear about 200 pound lions, the "clown light" starts flashing. I will not call anyone a liar that I cannot disprove, but if I don't see it on the scale, I aint buying it. Cats, once parted out, continue to grow for years beyond their death. Case in point: Brian williams Colorado giant is now being called 230 pounds. It is common for a cat that weighed 135 pounds to fit on a larger mannikin than one that weghed 165 pounds.
For the guys who have taken lions that measure nine or even ten feet, the " clown light" also applies. The longest cat I have ever measured was 58" from nose to base of the tail. That is four feet ten inches. The cat weighed 187 pounds. The longest lion tail I have ever measured was 35 1/2 inches. Thirty to thirty one are the norm ( I have measured several hundred). I have mounted a few that I believe were in the sixty inch range. This still would be shy of eight feet. Nine foot lions are a myth and any cat over 190 pounds is a freak of nature.
As for skulls, it is interesting to note that until Garth Roberts killed a lion in Utah in 1964 Teddy Roosevelt's cat was the world record. There have been quite a few cats killed in recent years that have matched or topped the 16" mark. I find it hard to believe that many world records slip through cracks in this modern era of hunting. A friend of mine caught a lion for a dude in New mexico that officially scored 15 15/16" two years after it was boiled and another cat was taken in Oregon on a dpredation hunt that officially scored the same.
These are just some of my observations from handling well over 1,000 cougars from Argentina to Alberta.
I don't want to argue because I really don't know what your cat weighed or measured, I'm only looking at the facts that I have recorded in the last twenty five years.

Hey Roy
I used to be a runner in the late 80's for Ed McCollum.
Ran for chamberlain basin.
Ring any bells
Those salmon river cats were some dandy's.

Yup i believe him and Peggy sold out too!
I guided for salmon river lodge, lemhi guide service, and Dave williams.
Small word.

Also guided for bighorn outfitters.
That should have been small world not word

Sorry for the little hijack Ill send a PM next time.

If Hooper is still in town mounting dead heads tell him one of his old packers is still alive. I packed a few bulls from Artic Point to the air strip
for that boy. 1992
I believe Hooper was killin bulls faster than I could make around trip.

Roy Auwen wrote:Thomas ,i have been watching these wieghts on cats and bit my lip.Well now i know i'm not the only one, that smells fishy.
I have hunted lions for forty years here in Idaho and believe me.
We have huge skulls and big cats here.
I have wieghed some big femalesand know how to sex a cat.
Never female over 130lbs certified scale.
Nevever a tom over 183lbs.
Inever got all the big ones wieght because of location of kill,needed skinned first toback pack out.But dought any were 20lbs bigger on the toms and maybe 5lbs bigger on the females.

I just hapened too check this post again too see how it was doen/ there some entrys comeing-in and thats good .

I dont know what to say thomas too you excepte that you have access to taken em & weighing em/ i didnt and wasent able too. My cats was guestament weights only/ I know this ( I couldnt heft em up an off the ground ) and I use too be strong . What other hunters I met said bout there cats they told me about is maybe a guestamate also/ I didn`t ask em ;but by GOD I seen the long leights tacked up on a barn shed front inside wall of no less than 6 and tail and body and whole streched out tacked out dryed an a couple still finishen drien-out/ was monsters in leight an spann accrost tacked-open streched ! I didn`t kill em but he showed em too me and I dont lie bout nothen/ tell 1 lie ya got too tell a 2 ed to cover the first anon an on! Ive said things that others dissagreed too (ok) but just because someone thinks its not true / the proof is not there...I`d sure hate too be stuck in a hunten rigg with a guy carrien-on about this and that for 100 miles and one of us or both of us should consider that life events are differently unfolded befor each of us too see/ less we are rideing in the same hunten rigg together !?
jack

Cecil with all do respect if you read my second post and I quote "I AM NOT CALLING ANYBODY A LIAR.
I have read your posts on similar subjects and qualify my responses out of respect for you.
I respect your time in the field and the things you have expierenced.
You must realize I am no youngster either and we have had different experinces and i make no bones about that.
I enjoy your stories and how you tellem so I hope you are not cross.
Keep the stories comin and we will both be happy.
Yes I do take every thing out whole or quatered in some of the roughest contry in the lower 48.
I didn't know how properly skin a cat years ago so me and the dogs wood dragem out sometimes it was pure hell but that was my job.
I still bring out big toms whole even if it kills me.
A big tom cat on the dog box burns the road runners up cause they know
that cat has never seen a road.
Sorry to hijack your post but
I have never have seen a lion dead or alive as big as you have described but hat doesn't mean you haven't.

[quote="thomas"]Cecil with all do respect if you read my second post and I quote "I AM NOT CALLING ANYBODY A LIAR.
I have read your posts on similar subjects and qualify my responses out of respect fo

Shoot thomas fitst of all and for most I didnt find a moment of illness orver your held thoughts . 2 edly Thomas this post is about you,others and I just started it and I`m sure its gone on forwho knows how many different times by others. Its a bond fire cat camp setting and not :brass knockles/guns/and knives type setting .hahahaha !
Thank you for replyen back on it, I was maybe too plain spoken an could of thought-out what Id like too of responded-too.
Actuall thomas/ this colum and other formuns run way better if we start it and just sit back and watch it run and enjoy the gammitt of how it runs and how freely everyone speaks and keeps speaking and on it runs. Think nothen of it keep goen on this formum cause I`m gleaning and enjoying hearing everyones replys and polaberens.

jack

I thought you were speaking of carcass measurements. You can hang the hide of a big tom on a nail by the nose and I'm sure some would stretch weel over nine feet. Tacking one out you would be able to stretch one much larger than the carcass would measure.
Thomas, Hooper is up north in Bonners Ferry country these days.

Well I have only weighed a couple of lions in my life. One was 160# tom. Nice head...sits in long-hunter at 14 7/16"s I think. I am amazed though at some of the weights of lions and bears in some areas verses skull size. Utah seems to have pretty big headed toms for their age verses some other states older toms. Maybe its just me but curious to see what you all think...especially you Mike?
Catman

I cought two that went around 170 pound mark. The lion Brian Willams kill is mounted on an African female lion form. It looks amazing!!

Brian williams cat is mounted on a mountain lion form and a medium African lion jawset was used in the mouth. The jawset was narrowed a bit as the spacing of the incisors is much greater on a lion.

2:30 am .....what the heck are you doin' on the computer at that time of the night/morning Have you got this one mounted yet cause I got a small truckload for ya ta come git!



This one is gonna need a "tail extension" just to look normal let alone hit the 9 or 10 feet plus that "super cats" supposedly measure Cant speak for elsewhere but eight feet on the carcass is "the mark" round here(nose to tip of tail).Weight is like whitetail scoring, they get interesting at "140"+ and "160" to "180 " are whoppers, those "190" to "200" plus jobs are to be cherished cause they can be rare. Skull size falls where it may, some big ones got small heads and vise versa.

It's mounted, I am just waiting on pose for the other Byron.