BigGameHoundsmen.com

I've been running dogs for about 30yrs. I do not cat hunt or bear hunt, but over the years I've learned to appreciate any breed of dog that does his job exceptionally well. I read posts on this site from time to time and dont think ive ever chimed in on one but wanted to express my enjoyment of reading these responses starting with Mr Clays. Ive never met him but have had people over the yrs ask me the question " how do u know what your dogs are doing". Ive never really put it into words for the person asking or really thought it thru exactly what it is i pick out from the dogs, but wanted to say well done on the description and examples not only to Mr. Clay but the other posts as well. i would also like to add that i can see how it could get agervating answering some of the questions that seem obvious or plain stupid. So i would like to thank each of u in advance for continueing to participate on a site like this that u have no vested interest in and may be badgered or ridiculed like the one gentleman said. I must also say not all have been so lucky to log the woods hours or hunt time with the dogs as some of us. Im sure those folks thank u also for using kind words in your responses, having the patience to interact with beginners, and taking time to give examples and good ones at that. Thanks again for the informative discusion and sharing personal experience for all to learn from.

Hobo wrote:I've been running dogs for about 30yrs. I do not cat hunt or bear hunt, but over the years I've learned to appreciate any breed of dog that does his job exceptionally well. I read posts on this site from time to time and dont think ive ever chimed in on one but wanted to express my enjoyment of reading these responses starting with Mr Clays. Ive never met him but have had people over the yrs ask me the question " how do u know what your dogs are doing". Ive never really put it into words for the person asking or really thought it thru exactly what it is i pick out from the dogs, but wanted to say well done on the description and examples not only to Mr. Clay but the other posts as well. i would also like to add that i can see how it could get agervating answering some of the questions that seem obvious or plain stupid. So i would like to thank each of u in advance for continueing to participate on a site like this that u have no vested interest in and may be badgered or ridiculed like the one gentleman said. I must also say not all have been so lucky to log the woods hours or hunt time with the dogs as some of us. Im sure those folks thank u also for using kind words in your responses, having the patience to interact with beginners, and taking time to give examples and good ones at that. Thanks again for the informative discusion and sharing personal experience for all to learn from.

Hobo, you may not say much, but you sure said this well!!!

al baldwin wrote:David don,t know quite what to say after reading that post. So will just say I suspect A good tough bobcat hound, that is balanced, able to stirike, cold trail, pick his head up & run with enought speed to break the cat pace, should be able to tree cats most any place, providing the dog can also locate & bark treed enought for the hunter to find him. That sounds simple but can be very hard to come by. Now this is just my opinion & certainly not ment to offend any. However sure when moving from one state to the next one would expect to give the dog time to adjust. Sure not saying it going to work every time, Thanks Al Baldwin

That is exactly what I thought also Mr Baldwin. That i why I used so much money to bring good dogs to MN from Oregon. One of the men you have mentioned at least twice, including in this thread owned one of them. As you said, he caught a lot of cats and was a top cat hunter with straight bobcat dogs. He had two dogs at the time. One was about a two year old, and one was his main dog. I hunted with him and brought his main dog back here. He told me he would not sell her, and I was 100 miles away when he called and said he changed his mind. When I got back there, I thought his wife was truely going to beat him up for it. She was crying, and I felt like a big bully landlord or something.

I absolutely loved the dog and her rigging abilities were intact. But she never again was responsible for catching a bobcat. The man who paid for her got frustrated with her and would not even take her hunting any more. so I traded him for her. She stayed with me till she died and had about the prettiest voice ever hung on a hound. I would put her out alone many times just because i needed a fix of that voice of hers. But she never again caught a bobcat.

There have been many examples of this with dogs I have bought and folks I know of have bought, including one of Earl Davis' lead dogs "goldie" when he sold out. This subject has been run into the ground, and I guess we are doing it again, but it is a mystery that i would like so much to understand. There are people in other regions that have had similar experiences. And then there are regions that seem to be interchangeable. I recently talked to a man in Oklahoma that says dogs can go one way, but not the other. Dogs sent out do very well. Dogs brought in do not do well at all.

It is amazing how strong our opinions can be on a subject. All we really have are our experiences to base our opinions on. Some of our opinions, however, expand to subjects beyond our experience. We are going to form opinions on virtually anything to do with dogs because that is what we know a lot about.

I had my opinions on the heavy brush of the south, for example. I had my opinions on how I would do things so much differently down there. All these opinions were based on a compilation of every one of my own experiences with dogs throughout my whole life. Now, however, I know my opinions were not fully informed. I have different opinions now that i have actually been there and seen it. You would think 30 years with dogs would have been enough for my opinion to have had a solid foundation. It was not. And that is because I had never been there and done that. I thought I had. I had not. My opinions were not based on fact, but on my experience.

that is just a tiny example.

I think it is hard for Cary to understand how some of these big headed tree hounds are with back trailing, for example. He can only base his opinions on the perspective of a pack of dogs that has been bred for straight bobcat for over 50 years. He gets to listen to and watch a man who has been running straight bobcat dogs longer than most folks on this board have been alive, and certainly longer than any of us have hunted straight bobcats. His dad will not tolerate that trait of back trailing. Yet most cold nosed big headed tree hounds will show it at times. We have put up with it because we thought we had to. I do not know any one who runs cold nosed tree bred hounds who has not experienced it. If they tell me they have not, I form an opinion of that person based on my experience with that type dog. My opinion might be incorrect, but I only have my experience to base it on. My experience says, "either that person is dishonest, or that person does not really know his dogs very well". My experience does not allow me the option of "some very cold nosed dogs will never go backwards more than a very short ways".

The dogs you and I were "raised on" Mr. Baldwin, and the dogs Mr C. J. Clay was raised on are extremely different. It is no wonder our opinions are so varied. Our opinions are based on our experiences, and our experiences are, in some cases, almost opposite.

It sure has been fun on here through the years hearing the different perspectives. It was not that long ago when people from certain regions could not believe that a dog could rig a cat from a moving rig. the arguments went on for months; all kinds of bets and threats. Now, folks in those regions are rigging cats. It sure is an interesting time for a bobcat hunter to be alive. There has never been such a cross-pollination in the history of the sport.

Read and understood that post very well. Thanks and you are correct my experience has been all on the oregon coast. Other than some ground hog, possium & etc. in Va. as a kid with yard dogs. Did ship a dog to minnesota once. Talk to the guide years later, told me dog had trouble in the snow at first so he sold to another Guide. Said turned out to be a big mistake, said that guide caught a bunch of bobcat with that dog once he adjusted to the snow. Have sent a few pups to a friend in central oregon & he has been very satisfied with finish dogs. I HAVE NEVER sold. MANY DOGS & WHEN i DID MOST TIMES THEY WERE BOUGHT LOCAL. I just really liked to hunt. with hounds. That dog that went to minnesota was a brother to skinner dog we discussed.would love to take Cury up on the invite to hunt with the clay hounds. But medical issue puts makes that very risky. So enjoy life to the fullest while your health is good. Would be nice to put a last name on David. Could al ways PM. Seems I JUST CAN/T HELP BUT GIVE MY HONEST OPINIPN & IT SURE CAN BE INCORRECT. Thanks Al Baldwin

That health thing is really something. We can be the richest person on earth and it means nothing if we dont have our health. I sure wish I would have understood that as a younger man. I sure would have paid more attention to taking good care of this body I was given.

You know, if it came down to it, and I had the opportunity and the money to burn, I would just keep trying to ship in good dogs till it worked. It looks so good on paper. It takes two to three hours of burning fuel to get to bobcat habitat up here. Then you may burn another day or two worth of fuel to find a track that the dogs cant' work. All that while you are not on the job making money those days. If we figured out the cost of one jumped cat, and multiplied that times the number of jumped cats a good Oregon dog has been on, the cost of a finished dog looks like peanuts. I wish for everyone that it worked out that way. It has not yet for us. Hopefully we will get it figured out someday. I will be first in line.

My last name is easy to remember if you spell the number 8. eight. put a "P" in front of it and an "al" after it. You have my last name. P + 8 + al. I don't really like how anyone in the world can have an instant file on me by searching my name on line. I am a little superstitious that way.

Mr. Clay was talking about dog brands. Maybe P8 would be a good one.

Taking care of body does not always work, Idid that, not much one can do about a virus. Good Luck Al

We are glad you are well enough to bring your gifts to the big game houndsmen. It is always great to get the perspectives of an experienced houndsman. Some times the board needs a motivator for good discussion. Hope you can get back to feeling like your old self again.

David thanks for the good wish.

I have very limited regional experience with bobcat hunting. I know guys from all over that hunt diverse terrain and use different style and different dogs. I have found that when hunting in snow, the lead dog has a great advantage. He ownes the track and makes it tougher for others to trail. That is why we usually try to run only two dogs on a bobcat. For whatever reason, more dogs tend to complicate things. I realize that working a group of dogs into a well tuned "Pack" will give them an advantage in many areas, as hunting without snow allows a pack to work better. I thing snow dogs do not utilize their ability to scent the air like they would had they been started without a visible tracks. The other area where a lot of guys struggle is actually knowing what is happening and being honest about it. As a guy that mostly just hunts weekends, I have found it difficult to know what my dogs are doing half the time due to my lack of familiarity with them and not hunting them enough to clearly display the traits they were given or should develope.