Better Dogs?

[al baldwin]

John i think need to give your self more credit my experience was just spending a lot of time with the dogs, haveing tom barnett & clarence berg early in my hunting days. Later hunting some with people like Zip & Robin Powell two very knowledgable cat hunters. If Robin had the amount of time to hunt as some have his catch # would match most anyone. Tough when one is restricted to weekends only & after working on a highball production job all week. Also John suspect if you continue to search for the best close track dog you can find that has an exceptional nose, you will find them to be a much better asset to your pack than you now realize. Those dogs some times only need to take tracks a short ways for the faster dogs to take the track & catch cats . And without that dog in your pack you would have never realize that track was there. Of coarse if one has a fast drifter with the same nose power, better yet, sometimes. Dewey find your theory interesting that cats don,t give scent when they are scared. Say this only because the old timers have told me they thought the cats could hold thier scent if they did not get scared. Sure not challening you on this, because I only know some can sure make the dogs look foolish. Thanks Al Baldwin

[dwalton]

John: I agree with Al, you need to give yourself more credit. Luck has little to do with it. We can wait at home all day and not see a cat run through our living room or we can be in the woods at the best place that we might start a cat. If we depend on luck to run our lives we have no responsibility to make things happen as to what way we want it. You are the only one that has 100% control over your life when you give that up to luck or someone else you lose the chance for making life the way you want it. Dewey

[South Texan]

Interesting post. Mr. Al, I would have to side with you and the ol'timers on this one. I also believe a cat can contain his scent to some degree, if he wants to. Like Mr. Dewey said, the Lee Brothers believed this. I have read the book, "Life of the Greatest Guide" about the Lee Brothers, four or five times. I think it is one of the best hunting books I have ever read. Dale Lee, in this book, talks about lions being able to contain their scent. I also believe a bob cat can do the same thing. It sounds unbelievable. But...until you have witnessed it, it sure makes you believe they can do it.

I wrote about this last year, but reading this post, I'm going to mention it again.

I have seen the hounds trailing all around (dry ground) in one area, probably not much bigger than an acre but THICK cover. All around, back over their track, just go around and around in the same area. But ever now and again you would get a few excited barks from one of the ol'dogs and you would think maybe they're going to get him jumped. But next thing you know they was just back to trailing. Now this went on for 30 minutes or so. I finally slipped out in the middle of the area where they had been trailing all around. After about five minutes, sure nuff I saw the cat come slipping by me, he looked like he was walking on egg shells. Until you have witnessed a cat walking or slipping around like this, it has containing his scent, written all over it. Well...when I saw the cat, (he had not seen me yet) I run at him and went to hollering and clapping my hands for the dogs which was coming on, still trailing maybe 30 or 40 yards from there. Well I scared the cat and he run, the dogs come a running, and when they hit the spot where the cat had run the race was on.

Now..I don't know if a cat holding their scent is something they have to think about doing or not (but I think it is) but when I scared him, he lost his concentration or composure or...holding his scent and all I know is from that point on, the dogs could run him.

Now this is something that I have seen a lot of thru the years. Sometimes a dog will just happen to bump right into the cat as he's slipping around and scare him to put him to running, getting the same results.

Now I don't know if this holding or containing of scent from a cat is something they do when they're hunting or not. But I do think it is a learned behavior, from cats that have out smarted the dogs before, a behavior used to out wit the dogs again.

As Mr Dewey said, this isn't a behavior that you see in all cats. Thank goodness. It's hard enough as it is, but when you get one pulling this little stunt, it can really get ruff.

These are just my observations and opinions. How I interpreted what I saw, someone else might have saw it in a different light.

Happy hunting to all. Robbie

[macedonia mule man]

fellows, i have seen the same thing while running rabbits with beagle hounds and running deer with deer dogs. rabbit and deer will sneak around and seem to not be leaving enough scent to make a race. this is done in the southeast where it is wet with a lot of vegetation, cant explain.

[SECOND NATURE]

i agree with the cat holding its scent theory to some point i don't believe they do it it at will or they would do it all the time i have seen it with lots of game . I explain it to people like this you know the flush feeling you get when you have a close call in a vehicle almost having a accident . or when you are flying down a road and come around a corner and see a police cruiser sitting there . the kind of feeling you get when someone jumps you ?

it seems to me when a animal sees a human and it gets surprised when its not expecting it to be there and i think the flush feeling (fight or fright) they get, involuntarily shuts down there scent for a short period of time which creates a momentary loss (hopefully) the many times i have seen it happen on cats crossing a road or trail and making eye contact with a human or a vehicle that he didn't expect to be there . the dogs make it to the point where i have seen the cat and the cat saw me and the dogs have a hard time picking it up as soon as they hunt out far enough they are off an running again.

that is my take on it and just my opinion of what you guys are talking about thanks Larry

[George Streepy]

I thought this one might get some attention from a few of you. Al, Dewey, George, Tom Barnett and a few other names mentioned. You guy's are in a very small group of top notch houndsmen, far better than most of us will ever be.

I should say that putting my name in with a group of guys like that is a far stretch of what I know or what I have been capable of. I have spent a lot of money on dogs over the years to be able to catch an average number of cats. I have had some good fortune with dogs I started, but for the most part I have relied on the expertise of others to help me along.

John: I agree with Al, you need to give yourself more credit. Luck has little to do with it. We can wait at home all day and not see a cat run through our living room or we can be in the woods at the best place that we might start a cat. If we depend on luck to run our lives we have no responsibility to make things happen as to what way we want it. You are the only one that has 100% control over your life when you give that up to luck or someone else you lose the chance for making life the way you want it. Dewey

My idea of luck is when other driving factors in life like family or work only allows a guy the poor days to hunt and everything comes together. I realize working hard at having dogs that can produce is what puts cats in the tree. Dedicating the time in the woods and learning all you can is far more practical than depending on luck, but some days I sure have felt lucky.

John, I have a feeling you do better than you let on. As far as the summer cats go, it is very tough. It is really tough to catch them if you are like me and your dogs are kennelled for nearly 5 months before you send them out in poor tracking conditions to try and catch a cat. I have spent the last year working hard to figure out how I can set up my work responsibilities to allow me more time to hunt. Without time in the woods, a guy won't ever get lucky.

[Dads dogboy]

Folks,

It sure is GOOD to see these very Informative and Educational threads appearing and developing without any distractions coming up!

This has been a Good thread with several different components.

Scenting......ah the Big Evil of Bobcat hunting. Mr. Robbie has described well one of the scenarios that we face in the SouthEast. Dad describes it as the Hounds running the Cat til it stops running and starts walking. If you have watched a Cat when this is happening you will see it walking on Tip Toes, slipping around being very careful to not rub on vegitation, all factors which will yeild less Scent for the hounds to smell.

When Mr. Robbie clapped his hands or I like to give a Rebel Yell or two, the Cat will stop being careful and try to head to the "Nearest Far Away Place" as fast as it can. The Cat leaves more scent then the Hounds smell it better and the Opry Plays loudly!

I also agree with Second Nature as to the Cat seeing you and getting a "Jolt" of adrenilin! This causes a short change in the Cats Scent signature. Dad refers to this as a Cat "Breaking It's" stride. If the Hounds reach out far enough they will pick the Cat back up as it gets over the Adrenilin Jolt.

I doubt wether a Cat can truly stop or hold their Scent but having their metabilism change due to a Shock will surely cause it to change (if you have ever been around a person having certain kinds of sieziers you may have smelled their body odor change).

The worst time of the year for us to try to run a Cat here in the Southeast is now till the middle of June. The summer is not good, but from mid March till mid June the Cats do not stir as much, pollen makes scenting tough on the Hounds, lush vegitation messes with the Hounds, and volitile weather conditions all contribute to challenging conditions with all the odds stacked in favor of the Bobcat!

[coastrangecathunting]

dogboy do u seem to catch these eggshell walking cats on the ground. i have seen these cats do this before and it makes u sratch your head looking at the garmin, when u see the cat they are not even breathing out of there mouth. just sneaking around. i have had the dogs catch these cats on the ground . not the dog that is doing all the trailing but the dog that is circling out in front trying to pick up the track ahead . they get lucky and run smack dab into the cat. this is one of the beifits to haveing a large pack compared to a small pack . with 3 or 4 dogs trailing and 5 or 6 dogs out circling .

jc

[BlazeNBrat]

they get lucky and run smack dab into the cat. this is one of the beifits to haveing a large pack compared to a small pack . with 3 or 4 dogs trailing and 5 or 6 dogs out circling .

jc

[Dads dogboy]

JC,

Yes, most of these Cat are caught on the ground. They will eventually squat under something and get Bayed, then streched.

Occassionally one will go in the ground, but I can not think of one ever Climbing!

In January we ran one 2 1/2 hours with the last hour and a half the Cat squated and ducked in some bad Palmettos. I would have to wade around the thicket and hollar to keep the Cat moving so the Houndscould run it another 10 to 15 minutes before it would squat again. It was so thick that the Hounds could not find the Cat to bay it. Ole Corkey wacked him slipping out and bayed him till the Pack got there.

[slowandeasy]

has anyone given thought that the hound can only trail as fast as the animal it is trailing is moving. after watching many animals being trailed i'm positive this is true.

[South Texan]

Slowandeasy, I think probably 98% of the time your right. But...I have seen the dogs take a good track, at a good pace (not running all out but moving fast) and maybe go off the road 300 to 400 yards and jump the cat. Now this was just a feeding trail that left the road up to where they jumped the cat. When a cat's feeding he isn't moving very fast, so I know my dogs had to be moving the trail faster than the cat's feeding trail. But....anytime this happens, which isn't very often, it is prime trailing conditions. Things that it takes to make perfect trailing conditions is lined up in order just the right way. Just my observations. Robbie

[al baldwin]

Slowaneasy that is exactualy what Clarence Berg the first professional hunter to take me under wing & help me with hounds told me. He said that about those bobs that learn to sneak ahead of the dogs& I have observed dogs that I knew could really burn a track on some bobs only move about the same speed as the sneaking cat was moving. And they were so close to the cat that it just did not seem possible, that was the best they could do. I could not hardly believe him when he told me how close he thought the dogs were to some of those cats, untill i saw with my own eyes. ( he was very truthful person just thought he must be mistaken on this one) Trailing a feeding cat must be different at times. But that can also be a challenge. Will tell about experience that really humbled me. Took a couple ladys hunting once, one had a cat tag, got a cat jumped,( had more inexperienced young dogs turned in than needed) that cat did something that caused a loose. The experienced dogs got it going again, but it was sneaking. I and three others saw that cat enter the road, the cat was just leaving road on one side, my best dog on opposite of road trailing with head down, had she looked up would have seen the cat. That cat exscaped the dogs. You can bet Iwas relieved , when the next morning after a good race the dogs treed that lady a cat. Would not tell that but have two people who can back me on it. Hope you enjoy & just something i experienced. Al Baldwin

[coastrangecathunting]

i think alot of the game only runs as fast as it has to . be it bear, bobcat, coyote ect.

jc

[LarryBeggs]

I agree with JC . I think the cat is the one who sets the pace on this kind of a track. Several times I have sen the cat hit the road walking, sometimes even stopping to listen to the dogs. The dogs are barking good on the track but not covering the ground very fast because they are covering 4 times as much ground as the cat trying to keep the track going.The cat walks up the road. And just about the time the cat leave the road the dogs hit the road. The cat just isnt leaving much scent.I saw a race go on like this for twelve hours once that ended in a tree with one dog on it the last half of the race.The other dogs just lost interest because of the lack of scent. Once the cat either slipped up or wore out ,and let the dog get close enough to make it run and leave some scent the race was over in a few minutes. Different style of dogs probably would have closed the ground quicker and put the cat up sooner.I have seen a lot of dogs that were faster than her but I have never seen a dog keep that type of a track with minimal scent going as long as she could. She caught several cat on the ground by herself. Usualy ther wouldnt be a scratch on her because the cat was to worn out when she caught it to fight.