BigGameHoundsmen.com

Born with it. But the intelligence is brought to surface from a good dog man.

Just like a kid in school with a teacher that don't know how to teach vs a good teacher. Which do you think you would learn more under? My thoughts. Robbie

mike, not only are you a caring person about our sport, with a willingness to do as much as possible to save the sport. i believe you have more between your ears than 90% of the people putting dogs on the ground! more true words have not been spoken in your last few posts. but i am sure you didn't need me to tell you! but i thought it would be nice to hear from a stranger that sees the whole picture. if someone new to the game would pay attention to even half of some of the things you said. they would probably be well on the way to having a couple of good hounds. take care!

robbie, you are 110% right. i will add that the best ones i ever stood behind with my pointing stick, were doing things that at the age and time their brains didn't even know why! take care!

I've only got the time, the money an experience to run 2 or 3 dogs at a time. Most of the time it's one or two young dogs an 1 or 2 ol dogs that had there day.having that old dog help push my young dogs threw the tough looses is when i start seeing the true hunters appear. I'v never owned a true cat dog but one young dog I gt now is teaching me more about hounding than any houndsmen has. I watched him belly crawle threw a log jam an about half way across he stopped an from a laying down position hopped a good 5 feet an landed on a rock were he hopped onto another set of logs an from there carried out the track , bt if that little stunt dont sound like a cat dog in the making I dnt no what is. I think he could be the one.

Thanks for replying guy's, CRA's last topic got me thinking on this one. Twist, kinda summed it up he said something like. A cat dog just knows where to go to keep the track moving. He's sure right on that one. Maybe he'll chime in and give his .02cents.

Dewey, I do not believe such a dog exists. I sure hope not for the sake of our hunting future. Bobcat hunting needs to be more challenging than that. Thank you. John.

Warner-5; A cat dog like that did exist. Once you have owned one you have a measuring stick to compare everyone else to. I have owned one and new of a couple of others. I think why most people on here doubt what I say at times because they have never seen a dog like that, they can not believe it has existed or can. It is like the 4 minute mile, it could not happen until it was done, them it became the goal to ever distant runner. They key is breeding another one. That has been my goal for many years. I have some good cat dogs now that would surprise most as to what they can do but are not what I call a top cat dog just real good. Life would be boring if al dogs were like that, but I think I could live with it. Dewey

Dewey as you know I have not hunted out of my area. So I only know what I see here. Timbered bluff's or rim rocks will leave you with out a cat several times a year. In the winter months creeks and rivers swell, pressured cats jump in popping out 100-500 yrds down stream, these one's rarely get caught. I will stop and gather up dogs while running cats moving towards roads heavy with traffic. More cats lost. Some day's it's just a train wreck. I could talk about these scenerio's all day. You can see why I have become sceptical, when I hear of dogs that alway's get their cat. John.

Brains,Heart,Desire,Breeding,Experience,and all the other things we all seem to agree on. Start looking around and when you find a HUNTER of hounds that have all these traits, you will most likely find some dogs that are real close to being "THE ONE".
Just an opinion

I believe your right Mark. Hunters with good packs probably have a dog like what were describing at the heart of their packs. Good hunting. John.

one thing that is most certain. if a person is consistantly satisfied piece mealing and hodge podging a pack of dogs together. putting desired traits in a half dozen different hounds, that you would really like to have under one hyde. the quest for THE ONE will certainly seem an imposability. i know this will piss some off. but it is true. take care!

I have raised and trained 3 dogs that I would call “cat dogs”. I have hunted with a few more that I didn't own but got the pleasure of hunting around them a lot. I have owned a lot of cat harassers but they all had holes in their performances somewhere that prevented them from being a total package “cat dog”. The 3 dogs, I called “cat dogs” had very few holes. They weren't perfect but were as close as I have seen.
I will give an example of what I would witness fairly often when I was hunting a cat dog vs. a cat harasser. One day I put out on a half snow filled froze out cat track that had walked sometime during the night. It was about 09:30 when I put out on the track. I had some fairly nice cat harassers and one cat dog. The dogs buried their noses in the track and left out heads up and were out of hearing within minutes. I went to a high road where the dogs topped out and could hear the dogs really heating up the track.
Then I heard them jump and was heading toward a long running rim that set off the road. The road went below the bottom of the rim. When I rounded the corner of the road I saw the “cat dog” standing just off the edge of the road. I thought to myself what in the worlds wrong with him? Then I saw him start barking into a culvert pipe that was going under the road. He had a nice cat in the pipe. When I got out of the truck I could hear the cat harassers jumped and roaring toward the road. The cat dog had the snow beat down from walking all over it (meaning he had been there awhile). He was at least 10 minutes ahead of the others. That’s a lot of time considering they weren't out on the track for only about an hour. The dogs he made look stupid were all nice cat harassers. They would all catch a cat without help and alone. It just shows the difference in a cat dog vs. cat harassers. That dog was super cat savvy and had a very special way of getting out on a cat track by drifting in the direction the cat traveled. This wasn't a fluke hunt either because this dog made good cat dogs look silly on many cat tracks. When I would leave him in the box the others would catch most jumped cats, but they didn't make it look as easy as he did. When the conditions were good I would hold him up in the box just in case I found another cat track and to see the other dogs performances.
If you were to look at this incredible “cat dog” you wouldn't think he was much of a looker. You would probably think I was crazy if I told you he was capable of making some nice cat dogs look stupid on a cat. All 3 cat dogs that I owned would make a rough country cat look easy, while showing you the holes in the other cat harasser’s performances. I want to mention that I never hunt more than 4 dogs on a cat track. I never own more than 6 dogs counting pups. I just hate leaving a dog at home. If I was in a position to hunt more, I would be able to justify more dogs. Hunting 2 or 3 times a week, I can’t hunt down the 4 dogs enough to need anymore. Having only 4 dog’s maximum on a cat track, I can closely monitor all the dogs’ performances. I also don’t mix my dogs with others and very seldom hunt with someone that don’t carry my last name.
It’s hard to judge other dogs when you have seen it done by a real cat dog. Having a true cat dog makes cat tracks appear easy and they will complete with style and end a very high percentage of tracks. Every top cat dog I ever owned or hunted with were semi-silent cold nosed track dogs. A few of them weren't every breath tree dogs, but barked enough to get to them.
Every cat dog I have owned or hunted with was super cat savvy. All were very level headed and would never babble on a track or bark off track. All were very independent and could care less if another dog was with them on a cat track. All were heads up track drifters but weren’t super fast, but for sure wasn't too slow. They wouldn't quit a track or leave a tree due to bad weather or freezing temperatures. When you put a cat dog down on a cat track you better be ready to commit for as long as it takes. A cat dog will take tracks that you have your doubts about getting up and moving and turn that track into a hike to a tree. When a cat hunter owns or hunts regularly with a special gifted cat hound it will send you on a lifelong mission to find another one. I will say its very hard to find all the traits wrapped into one hide but they are out there.

dwalton wrote: It would be nice to see what it means to you all to call a dog a top cat dog. To me it is a dog that will out cold trail and strike most dogs that it is hunted with. Complete 80% of the tracks it starts, and only fails to tree maybe 1 or 2 bobcats that it jumps all year hunting in all conditions all year around. How many of you have had the privilege to hunt with such a dog? Dewey

Dewey,
I've never seen or heard a dog around these parts that comes close. The only time you might get something in that realm is in the tavern, cause it sure sure ain't found in the woods. If such a dog did exist here, I'd infuse kevlar in his skin to protect from wolves and little floaties in case it fell through the ice. I'd build a full size garage just to house all the frozen siemen I'd collect off him. Or just clone it a dozen times if it was a female.

Losing 1-2 jumped cats a year in all conditions here, well I'd sure like to see it. Seen dogs I'd be darn proud to own that have done that in a day.

Good post CRA. John.

Nolte: I don't know where you hunt. I do know that different areas it is different hunting conditions.In most areas I think you don't have enough cats and hunting time to make a top cat dog. The dry deserts are hard on bobcat dogs. I hunted Nevada in the early '70 for lion, talking to the locals they said the bobcat could not be caught with hounds, we caught a lot of them. I ran into a old trapper years ago when I was trailing a bobcat in the cascades. He asked what was I trailing, I told him a bobcat. His comment was why was I wasting my time on them they could not be caught with hounds. He went on to tell me of the years he bounty hunted cougars and never caught a bobcat because it could not be done. In Northeastern California I have caught bobcat from November to June. Only hunted it once in July, I could start them and trail but could not complete the tracks. Here in Western Oregon I have seen dogs tree them in all conditions,all year long. With the guys that don't think it can be done they are beat before they try. Most people have never hunted with a strait pack of well handled bobcat dogs until you have you are comparing apples to oranges. If it can not be done in your mind it can not be done. Take a look at where else in life you limit yourself. Dewey

Dewey,
I'm confident that you sneeze more bobcat knowledge than I've garnered in my entire hunting career. I'm just a normal dude who likes to hunt the dogs as much as he can. No different than 90% of the other guys on here.I just like to get out and do my best when I can. You are right, we don't have a cat pop or hunting conditions to effectively train a straight pack of bobcat dogs. And I can truley say that I've never seen a dog I'd consider top knotch on cats.

I never say something can't happen or someone can't do something. I've seen too much stuff that I can't explain but it just happens. But I also try to live in reality as best I can. Only 1-2 jumped cats getting away in an entire year isn't reality, unless you are extremely choosy on what you're hunting in. Snow crust can/will cripple your catch rate. And you are going to get it if you're hunting whenever you can. Most times you can jump them with enough work, but I'm betting against catching them (treeing/brushpiled) every single time. Sure it will happen, but I sure ain't expecting it.

Thanks for the pep talk. I'll try to not limit myself so much. Good hunting, catch them all.