BigGameHoundsmen.com

I am not very good at math myself but just went through the numbers with my 4th grader and we came up with more females left in trees equels more tracks on the ground to run.
I like this post the only females that should be killed are problem bears, bear populations are easy to destroy but hard to recover.
Chet Young

Tell her thank you for helping you with the math because i can definately see how she came up with her answer!

I'm probably gona regret getting into this little conversation but if the area is heavily populated then i dont see the problem in taking a couple sows out of the area DEPENDING ON IF THEIR "BIG" AND DONT HAVE CUBS WITH THEM OR SIGNS tity bags etc... And i dont know where y'all live but up here in my area we have a decent bear population and i couldnt go out for a walk when i go hiking up their without getting stalked... So I personally dont see the probelm with taking a FEW liek is aid before depending on the weight W/out cubs titiy bags etc....

black and tans boy I see you live in Libby were talking about black bears not grizzlys the studies ive seen show you probably have a better chance getting stalked by a deer than a bear althogh considered a prediter might be your amagination getting away from you.
Chet young Utah.

I think that this Post has already show the ignorance/stupidity of some of the types of houndmen that are the problem in UTAH!!! Did you get that last word UTAH!!! not maine and not wisconsin and not montana. BPlott is trying to tell the houndmen of Utah to watch what they kill and save the sows they can in a state that doesnt have the populations, and a state that allows us all to run bears with hounds. If all a houndman can catch is a sow that trees easy and he kills it or lets a hunter kill it than maybe he ought to take up fishing or maybe get some new dogs or maybe he should realize that there is not many bear around and a bear to run angain is worth more than one that is on a wall. The sows of Utah are small compared to the mature bores for the most part and If you kill a sow how are you to know that she is dry or that she wont have cubs in a few years. Thats right you dont know. Listen to what Bplott is saying and anyone from Utah should pay attention to it. We all know that the bear pursuit is on thin ice in utah and every other state so lets go out of our way even if it means going without a filled bear tag to show UDWR that we are the most responsable and most selective type of hunters out there. I could really take this a step farther and tell you that i dont think a houndman should shoot a bear out of a tree. If it trees let him go. If he wants to fight on the ground all day then see what kind of hunter you are and get him killed on the ground up close and personal.

Remember guys he is talking about Utah because the season is about to start and results are out.

Dozer awesome post and thank you.... even tho we have probably never met or maybe we have i couldnt have said it better myself.... many biologist will tell you if you harverst more then 20-30% sows out of a small unit or area such as UTAH has for specific tags you will damage or destroy the bear population in that area! Thats the POINT im tring to bring across to the " houndsmen" here in UTAH! Hunters need to be MORE SELECTIVE because in some units 40-60% SOWS were killed last year!!

Umm? i am well aware of your talking about UTAH and not MONTANA, all i was getting at is that if the area is well populated then i dont see the big deal, and umm would you like to go with me? and walk from the top of the maintain and see for yourself? I'm 110% positive when i looked down the road 100yards behind me i seen a bear, i've been hunting them since i was little so im sure i know what a BLACK BEAR looks like....

And while im at it the studies dont mean shit, (my opinion) you cant drive around in a truck all damn day and say Yupp!! seen more deer them bear, Bear population must be down or whatever the biologist, fwp or the state say.... My amagination? haha lmfao almost forgot how to laugh..

black and tans boy sorry to come off ofensive but the houndsman in utah seem to kill everything that climbs a tree I have been hunting since I was a kid also and seen plenty of bears and think people that havent been around them think their killers we have sighns posted all over the forest saying danger bear in erea so when some one sees a bear they think their dead instead of enjoying the moment their are more people attacted by dear thats a fact not a study. just trying to say if people see a bear around here it should be a cool thing not a life threatening situation.

Bplott this is great and trust me its not just your state it's our state too! Everyone should learn if you leave sows alone the next coming year you could cut a track easy . Who said you had to shoot everyone you tree ? ......Being able to cut a track every time you go out just to hear a race would be nice .

I live and hunt in Utah and have all my life and I think Bplott hit the nail on the head, when it comes to running game with hounds it's as hard as I have ever seen it to find something to run, I guess you could blame the fish & game for the way they manage, but as I have said many times we are the ones doing the killing, just because we have a tag does not mean we need to kill something, I have a bear tag for the first time in my life this year, I am 52 and it's taken me 10 years putting in to get a tag but I will go without before I kill a female, try to find a bobcat around here to run I think there extinct!. Thank you Bplott keep it up, I will.

Thanks cougar2 good luck on your bear this year!! I still hhaven't drew a tag for bear and have never killed a lion and have had dogs nearly 18 yrs!! People might joke and say that's because you run plotts....lol but actually the only way I'm ever going to kill one is if its a trophy size BOAR OR TOM...... this killing a female lion or bear just kills me..... killing females is how you control populations and the DWR can't prove either bear or lion are over populated and as TRUE hounds men we kno better then they do what the populations are!!! That's why i will continue to preach LEAVE THE FEMALES ALONE here in UTAH!!!! If houndsmen in other states want to wipe out females go for it but UTAH you kno my motto!! IF IT SQUATS TO PEE LET IT BE.......!

This thread has been intersting to me so I decided to do a little digging. In the last 5 years you guys in Utah have harbested 350 sows (this includes depredation). Highest was last year at 82 and lowest was in 08 with 58. These amounts work out to be about 27 to 36% of total harvest. Note I am dumping in the depredation amounts just to include all of them. If this is the % of harvest, there has to be something else going on that isn't letting the population grow. Have there been any semi reliable estimates on what the population is? There really only looks to be about 5 units that have a female harvest higher than a couple, South Slope, La Sal, San Juan, Manti N, and Wasatch.

Here in WI, we have counties that have a higher female and total harvest than your entire state.

Personally, I would be careful to promote the "only trophy boar" mentality to everyone. Here's why. We are all in this thing at different stages. Some guys are just getting their feet wet. You might not want to blast one of these guy for taking a sow and risk losing somebody that would be on your side once they get it. If you rip them a new one for doing a completely legal action that they are probably pretty proud of, that isn't going to leave a good impression. It could also be a pretty proud trophy for a kid, or a new lady hunter, or an older guy with limited mobility. You won't be viewed as the savior of bears. You will be viewed as the prick with dogs and that is the last thing any of us hounders need. With that said, If it is a veteran hound guy who is just dropping sows to pad his stats you should hammer him for being an idiot.

I think you guys should look into doing something to help the bears out. With any animal population it comes down to habitat, food and security. You keep them fat and happy, there will be more of them. I know you guys can't bait to hunt using dogs, but can you bait for an archery season. If so, buy some tags and put out some barrels. Or if you have access to some private farm land, plant some crops. If you can't plant, round up some expired food and put it out. Just don't hunt over it. Don't think you can get a ticket for just dumping something on your own land and not hunting over it.

Nice post ,
Right now with out accurate population data as you posted 27-36% females state wide needs to be no more then 20% because as you stated the female harvest is high in 5 units. We know we can't change depredation numbers because those are killed by wildlife services for various reasons! BUT there is a lot of new hounds men in our state that where never taught any ethics and if it climbs it dies! We have seen this with our lion population! If this escalates with the bear like it did with our lion, the bear numbers will never recover! Since bears only have cubs every 2 to 3yrs and survival is very low in some areas of the state. I would rather make the awareness now of know your target and preach leave the females alone. Then to have the bear population in the dumps like the lion numbers are! Yes we all know that sows are going to be killed BUT we have also been told by the DWR we will probably never like there management process and if we want a CHANGE then we need to police our fellow hunters to not kill FEMALES!

Its all good bears@uha i understand!