oregon outdoor council

[mike martell]

I just run this past OOC and they think doing this is a bad idea.....Come on guys....Weigh in!

I just invite Jerod Broadfoot to this page to weigh in with his thoughts and reasoning behind abandoning 2/3 of this bill.
We will not only lose bear and baiting, I guess we already did since we allowed this to be removed. We will lose Trapping in mid terms and the cougar bill will stall one more time on the Senate floor with as much as this not even being brought to the floor for a vote....I will respect the OOC position....The loss impacts you, and you alone...I have my hunting secured for the rest of my days....Exclusive hunting any place is bulls$%&!

You roll over and clam up you get what you get! Two decades later this ought to start to sink in....JMHFO!

Mike

[Unreal_tk]

The best effective method for it would be doing a interview with papers about it. Supplying them the photos, they are afterall the best story tellers especially when they can make something look bad. Granted this would be a big hit to the trapping community in general especially before a big trapping initiative.

[mike martell]

This is what I fear the most, we just removed bear and baiting. Anglin lied under testimony stating they, meaning his contractors and Usda are not killing female cougar and kittens....Hsus and Or Cat were all over the current kill numbers stating the same facts that killed us the last two years in a row.....Please pay attention to this!

Hsus and Or Cat speaking....."Our records indicate more cougar are being killed now than prior the hound ban in 1994, so why do you need hounds to hunt cougar in Oregon?"

Damn good argument that will shut us down and kill this bill before it hits the Senate floor for a vote....AM I WRONG HERE PEOPLE? What am I missing?

[oregon perk]

Iwish broadfoot or someone could explain, some people go in and lay it on the line in the capitol we are out trying to raise money for oregon outdoor council, as they say the truth will set you free. Paying for the Govt.and state to indiscriminately slaughter our animals and this is O.K.They use bait,snares,hounds,traps and only have to check there traps once a month WOW!! Some of us will hunt all we want O.R.S 498.012 but,seem to be doing the most to help all of us.You don't have to stand tall,but sooner or later your going to have to stand up.

[Dale T]

Hsus and Or Cat speaking....."Our records indicate more cougar are being killed now than prior the hound ban in 1994, so why do you need hounds to hunt cougar in Oregon?"

If this is true, isn't at the cost of the tax payers in Oregon when if they were taken by houndsmen is would be a money maker for the state?

[mike martell]

Dale T

Yes, except for one little eenie teenie miniscule detail that our Fish Commission fails to always mention, Government is doing the killing and those permitted contractors are slaughtering our cougar and hauling them off to the landfill. The problem in Oregon is boot hunting is still allowed for both bear and cougar. When the flame heats up and it gets too hot for the Fish guys, they blame the numbers on boot hunters or better known as sport hunting.Provisions to protect and fund Government were shored up last year with passage of H.B. 3636 to aid in funding Government.

Mike

[Dale T]

Do you trust the take numbers from the gov. hunters ? And how do they compare to the boot hunters?

[mike martell]

Dale T
No I don't trust the numbers from Government Hunters or Contractors. A few years back, I caugh a snare contractor killing cougar caught in Spring bear timber damage snare sets and those cougar were shot and dumped over the bank and not recorded.I filed charges with the DOJ for restitution for we the people against the State of Oregon just like what would happen if you or I were caught poaching, but in reverse order....Simply stated, it is theft of our resourses and since the program was target specific to black bears peeling trees in spring. This was simply poaching Once the Contractor killed the animal and tossed it over the bank. Odfw was notified but remained supportive of the actions of the contractor.Here is how Odfw wiggled out of this mess.

A snare is called a humane devise but there is a clause according to OSP if the animal is mamed and unable to be released with good odds for survival then that animal can be euthanized. Now all we need is Jay Carney trying to explain how this works for Obama to explain this to all of us!.....Geeze how stupid can people be? If provisions need be implement for a humane device that does not allow for the safe removal of the animal, then it is by definition any thing but humane, correct? Not According to Jay Carney, I mean Ronald Anglin. All I Accomplished was bringing awareness to some of the illegal activity that goes on daily by both Usda and contractors. Double Standards by definition. You ever pull up the article written about Usda in the Sacramento Bee news paper?

Odfw started hiding the number of bears killed to lessen the impact of public out cry. I requested kill numbers and was shocked to see they were incomplete. This would have gone undetected had I not known who was doing the administrative removals. I went back to Odfw and asked why the numbers were incomplete and Administrator Anglin stated, because you only requested the numbers of bears killed by Usda and not the contractors. Once this was established, the kill numbers stacked up to about fourty percent of all bear killed each year are done so under contract. When you read the reports they read Usda and They read landowner, like a person who had a bear show up at a residence and threatened the landowner who shot the bear in self defense....No, this is Private owned timber corporations and those contractors hired each year to eradicate black bears.

How does an Unknown animal play into to proper game management objectives when they are simply called unknowns? No sex or age....This is to soften the blow of calling a spade a spade and that spade is a baby cub..... Oregonian citizens have a problem with our hounds? Time to have the open debate straight up! Will the State of Oregon go all Government with inhumane methods that far exceede those of sport hunters and hounds or will hounds be reinstated. The logic behind support for snares is simple. Since hounds were outlawed, Odfw has been clear about Sport hunters not being able to meet "managemnet objectives" or kill enough bears with the loss of hounds....So whats the debate or problem? There is no debate or problem other than getting the facts presented.....Unfortunately, OOC has no understanding of how the game is played and this is the reason the fish commission does what it does.No one understands the snare and how they work.

I have remained on the side lines over the last three years and only the first time under H.B 2237 did I testify in Salem. I agreed to allow the "Professional lobby" as some on this board reference them to testify and handle the strategy behind support for our rights and for this I say you must simply be drinking State of Oregon Kool-Aid if you are that ignornat to think keeping the truth within is going to save what is left in Oregon....Time to lay it all on the line and if this clearly has an impact on mid terms for Trapping than include all trapping, snares at the top of the heap and then when the playing fiels is leveled, you will see the timber producer step up and donate the millions of dollars needed to defend trapping.Why would they now? They have Odfw in there camp and our dollars to fund the program. Only when every single person is on the same page will this change. Until then....Kiss your a@@ and all your hunting goodbye, its over. Pretty easy grab after this for our coon and bobcats.

Mike

[mike martell]

by Unreal_tk » Sat Apr 13, 2013 4:28 pm

The best effective method for it would be doing a interview with papers about it. Supplying them the photos, they are afterall the best story tellers especially when they can make something look bad. Granted this would be a big hit to the trapping community in general especially before a big trapping initiative.

Thomas, point wall taken. They, meaning Hsus are the best story tellers I assume? If so, They stop at nothing short of a killing to tell there story while we conduct feel good opinion polls that prove nothing.

Here is the problem over all. Who understands trapping? Who knows the difference between a trapper running steel jaw traps on a designated line, maintaining a legal line thats regulated by law with protections for time limits for checking your traps. The average trapper probably runs #1 1/2- #4 traps.

THE SNARE PROGRAM IS PROHIBITED BY OREGON LAW TO THE GENERAL PUBLIC UNLESS YOU ARE CONDUCTING OFFICIAL BUSINESS RELATING TO CROPS, LIVESTOCK, SAFETY, TIMBER.TRAPPERS CAN'T SIMPLY GO CATCH BEARS IN SNARES IN THE FIELD LIKE A COYOTE.

The Snare program does not use a steel jaw trap, the only similarity is both catch by the foot. The mechanics are totally different and consist of a spring loaded swing arm with a one way slide and cable generally butchered beef heads that have been left out in the sun to rot are used to attract. The eye slots are poked out so the wire can be ran through the sockets to prevent the bear from batting the skull down before it has done its job.Sport Trappers would lose your trapping rights by using these methods!

Here is our problem. If most hunters and sportsmen do not understand the difference, what can we expect from our elected politicians or the base population of voters to think?

Here is how this is all going to play out. You the sport hunter with hounds are taking all the credit for the killing of 100% of all black bears and all cougar in Oregon, no matter the methods. You the sport hunter are the evil one. You deserve only to pay Government who knows best how to manage your affairs. The stories have already been told and a picture has been painted with a broad ugly Hsus brush! Step up now and shut this down.Try explaing the difference once we are totally defeated!

Here is my closing argument, How can you place your trust in any orginization that must conduct an opinion poll this late in the game? Bill Clinton perfected figuring out what way the wind blows to secure his liberal base.We know who the opposition is! We know how Salem votes and you don't need to target most of the republican base when it comes to support for hunting and our second amendment rights.

Guys, if you surrender your rights on a silver platter by allowing this to go in the direction it has taken with leadership that has no clue how to represent each entity its over. Too bad we look for product manufacturing reps to seat a board of directors to defend trapping, hunting, fishing and hound hunting rights in Oregon. Sadly, they have no idea how to defend each intity or sport as a situation arrises.

I admit it looks very professional to have the president of a manufacturing company speak articulately and eloquently in defense of our rights. Look at how this has played out by D.C. Politicians dictating to our Lead Military Commanders defending our shores....Politicians are idiots! At Some point in time it is necessary to step up and call out your opponent or we will get our butts kicked!

The best Quote on this entire site reads....If you find yourself engaged in a fair fight, your tactics suck! We should learn from the masters of spin, the same ones we are currently fighting and are kicking our butts.........Translation to all of this, We lose!

[dwalton]

Mike: Something I learned years ago you create your world by your speaking. Think about it. You are committed to getting back bear hunting and have put a lot of energy into it. How is that working for you? Maybe there is another way? I think we are as close to getting something back on our hunting rights. Just maybe a baby step is far greater than a leap that falls short. IN my opinion nothing is positive in attacking. I hesitate in writing this that it may be taken the wrong way. I only intent something positive for all of us. I hope someday you get bear hunting back until then we live with what we have. Good luck Dewey

[mike martell]

Dewey

First of all, thank you for weighing in.
I have not been engaged in this battle over the last two years except on here.Other than talking to our elected politicians who already support our efforts. I was in Salem and did not sign up to testify, just like I stated to the OUSDA prez for good reasons of my own.I'm very aware of "words" and know to testify would not be the thing for me to do. Confirm this by calling Dave Walker.

I know what I would do and it sure would not be doing anything but a demonstration on the Senate floor of the Government aldrich cable snare with stats in hand of the slaughtered sows and Unknown baby cubs compared to our hounds along with Anglins email stating the hound killed cougar are being disposed of at the landfill, debunking his lies. A solid display of the cost of hundreds of thousands of dollars associated with Government intervention vs. Private sector hound hunters who would generate a revenue for a dying state of Oregon.....

Some of you out of State guys need to weigh in? Would you roll over and allow this to continue or pull out all the stops. Maybe i'm off base here. We were banned for the inhumane and unethical treatement to animals in 1994, it would be one thing to be banned and completly shut down. All that was accomplished was a transfer of power over to the State and Federal Government with methods of eradication that are any thing but humane.

What was I thinking?

[DogLakeBlues]

My thoughts are lets pull out all the ammo we can.It would be nice to see the whole truth on whats really going on to our wildlife. All of us on this site are very passionate about the animals we hunt.We are the reason there are refuges will our tag fees.I also believe the day we give up our efforts is the day the HSUS wins and i will never give up even though I dont know much of the political process.So i guess what I am trying to say is thanks Mike Martell for these and other great and enlightening post.Sure a little would be nice to get back but I am a citizen of the UNITED STATES OF AMERICA and want all my rights that our fathers and grandfathers died to protect.

Ken Driessen

[mike martell]

Been gone for several days and just looked to see what has been posted.

Ken,
I hear what you are saying! You sir are spot on the money. Not much needs to be added to your last statement, speaks volumes to me.

Our god given rights are being violated each and every day Government intervenes in Sport hunting on our backs!

[DogLakeBlues]

Looks like Jerod is wanting more e-mails and phone call to the representatives in the house so please take a little time and go to the oregon outdoor council web page and follow the instructions. Thanks

[DogLakeBlues]

So I see HB 2624 passed the in the house today so it is off to the dreaded senate. Is there anything that anybody knows how we can get it in the Rural communities and economic development. I don't know much about the process but it sounds like this is the committee we need it in.