Who Pays Attention

[al baldwin]

I try to do what I can to help the dogs out but if my dogs needed baby sat on every race there on then there not the hounds for me. I do very little after letting the dogs off the rig or out the box I hunt where there is a good road system so im always with in a few hundred yards and I can tell for the most part who is doing what. I run three Blueticks and I havent had to worry about them over running tracks seem's to me more of the running dogs are the one's causeing loses or checks

Merlo you are a brave man, a statement that running dogs cause most of the checks is sure to mean war, especially if you hunt blueticks. Heck I am ever mad at you I have couple flag tails in my pens. I/m also envious with those roads, something I sure need now days. Al

[slowandeasy]

Boy Al you sure are being mean to me.


Take care, Willie

[newby]

Man! BuddyW, we really need a like button on here! Some of these posts are hilarious. Mark, I'm with you...you'd have to be half Daniel Boone, half Saskwatch to get to the front end of a race in that brushy country. I have a hard enough time getting to the tree and I don't even have thick brush to contend with. We just don't have that kind of a road system here and if you can get close enough to hear the race, it ALWAYS straight up hill or straight down. I don't use sleds, but i guess if you had those they might help you get into position a little better.

I just can't figure out how you guys can "see" with your ears, even lookin at the Garmin doesn't really help me figure out what each individual dog is all the time. Maybe i just need to spend more time hunting with some more experienced hunters so they can help me interpret what's really going on. Wish there were more that were willing to teach a younger hunter this stuff.

fast line running hounds can actually be the one's actually causing all the loss's and are running around the check area's popping off. I scrutinise my front running hounds more then the last dog running in my pack, if he wants the front fine but he better be able to handle it and the pack. I will tolerate some swinging from the mid-pack hounds to a point depending on what else they contribute to the pack, until something better of course can fill their collars. Fighting for the front while popping off over the checks can ruin more races then anything.

Mr. Denny, can you elaborate on these statements? How do you mean the "fast line running hounds" cause all the loses? What do you mean by "swinging"? And why do you just tolerate it while looking for something better? What, in your opinion would be better? Seems to me that if you have a hound that is getting in front of the lose to find the next track that would be good, how does that ruin a race? Thanks. Darin

[South Texan]

Newby,
Has there ever been a time there was a certain ball game you wanted to see on tv but you were running late & couldn't get home in time, so you were listening to it on your radio in your truck? As they are calling the game play by play you are visualizing what is going on in your mind. In other words you are seeing with your ears. I think this is a close comparison with dogs. Only way I know how to explain it.
Robbie

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[Budd Denny]

Mr. Denny, can you elaborate on these statements? How do you mean the "fast line running hounds" cause all the loses? What do you mean by "swinging"? And why do you just tolerate it while looking for something better? What, in your opinion would be better? Seems to me that if you have a hound that is getting in front of the lose to find the next track that would be good, how does that ruin a race? Thanks. Darin

What I mean is the hound that seems to always be the "super star" by always being seen/heard in the front may actually just be a very competitive hound that's just running in the front but not really running the line (racing for the front of the pack). Swinging is a term that some use for a hound not running the line but running the outside edge of the pack looking for a chance to take the front, some swing so much that they can take themselves out of the race. I will tolerate it for a short while as long as the hound is not being disruptive in the pack, or has something to offer to the pack in other areas, (good jump dog, good check work,) if he has nothing to offer the pack in other areas he is gone sooner then later. In a hare hunting pack my ideal hound would be cold nosed, line running with track between there legs, can take pack pressure, works a good check inside to out, and have good hunt. In the beagle world these hounds are not that common. And the dog that's in the front had better know were the track is at all times otherwise he shouldn't be up there. Why else would he be up there...to be a scout ?

[newby]

Mr. Robbie, I got the visualization part down, just seems a little unreliable for making corrections. Like an ump trying to call the base runner out while listening over the radio with me...seems risky and he MIT not get to call many more games.

Mr. Denny, I hear what your saying, sounds like you and I want the same kind of hound. Guess back to the original question though, how can youo tell what that swinging dog is doing without seeing it, garmin? Or are making an educated guess according to what it sounds like is happening? Then, when you're sure enough, how do you go about correcting that (tritronics?)

[al baldwin]

Newby that is a great explanation on the lead hound by Budd. That swinger will either be a hero or a zero. And those type hounds seem to get the lead more often than some like. That is why I say I prefer a steady grinder, by that I mean not the fastest but steady. Some of those swinger with age settle in and become grinders. Al

[NorWester]

I'm an idiot.....all this time I've been trying to see with my eyes and listen with my ears, not the other way around

The baseball game on the radio analogy is great. Trouble is that sometimes what they're calling isn't the game you think you're listening too
Or like Newby wrote, the ump is calling strikes while sitting beside you in the truck listening too

Seems to me a lot of guys are taking for granted their hounds are doing exactly like they envision. And well, I guess if ya dump the box and you see them leave out on a track and then an hour or two later see them under the tree with the cat looking down I suppose one can be forgiven for filling in the time between the two with visions of grandeur.

[South Texan]

Newby,
Your right. It is risky making the call. Only difference we don't have to make the call on the first go around. But a red flag should go up to be watching for that certain dog to make that mistake again, then after two or three same mistakes from the same dog, then...make the call. If you are comfortable with the call. The only audience we have is us & the dogs, so if we as trainers make a mistake correcting nobody will know but the trainer & the dog corrected. And we are going to make mistakes but most dogs have enough heart & drive for the chosen game that they will forgive us for our mistake and go on.

All these corrections I'm talking about above are referring to "seeing with our ears". If I see a mistake from a dog with my own eyes & without a shadow of doubt, he will get corrected then & there.
Hope this helped. Robbie

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[Curtis Wilcox]

Boys, Boys, Boys, don't ya know you only believe half of what see and none of what ya hear.If ya do that ya`ll be about half right .My Grandpa told me that and I think its fairly accurate.Budd the hounds from you and Nelson all run and tree good, bred one female to my July kept one pup he does a good job too.Ol`Curt call if ya get chance 541 258 5468 570 2863

[Budd Denny]

Guess back to the original question though, how can youo tell what that swinging dog is doing without seeing it, garmin? Or are making an educated guess according to what it sounds like is happening? Then, when you're sure enough, how do you go about correcting that (tritronics?)

I don't think you can tell that the hound is swinging unless you see it, and I really don't care WHAT he is doing out there cause that's not were he should be in the first place. There is no fixing a swinger, at least in the beagle world. Anyone else have advise how it can be fixed? I keep hearing people say they are makeing corrections, what and how are you correcting, cause I don't thing any e'collar is ever going to clean up a swinger.
Al..I agree 100%, I will take the slower, steadier, cleaner running hound all day.

[NorWester]

I'm reading a lot on here about giving corrections and curious about how you guys do it.

Say you have your lead hound, your fastest dog, over running the end calling on the track after the cat has made a turn. How do you go about correcting that? Aside from the obvious loss, how do you guys know it has happened if you are only in a position to see the cat go by with the dogs on the line a very small percentage of the time?

Another somewhat related question......when a cat starts running a very small area, do any of you fellows with hounds you describe as having serious nose power, have problems with the dog re-running a previously run track? If you do, and you have seen it.....how do you correct that?

[slowandeasy]

Bud,

I'm in the same camp as you. There are things that I refuse to fix, even if someone comes up with a miracle fix. Which is what it would take to cure them. There is a less stressful cure.


Take care, Willie

[Budd Denny]

Here is a short example of two hounds being over competitive and causing a loss. Watch the little white female (Gracie), she has the line but when the two competitive hounds try to take the front they veer to the left pulling the lead hound with them, had they stayed 2nd and 3rd I beleave they would have crossed the road without a check. Then watch who comes back and straitens it out. Neither of those two hound are in my pack anymore, and Gracie was not a lead hound at the time I videoed this, and probably never will be a lead hound but she sure does a lot of cleanup behind my pack on bad scenting days.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iBQ8UGYgDo4

[slowandeasy]

Bud,

Good example. And really it wasn't near as bad as it sometimes gets. That open marked hound and the blanket back with the ticks made that little loss that should have never happened. And were real good at claiming the check dogs work. Even though they had opportunity to smell it and take it on their own. And really didn't know the hare was on earth.


Take care, Willie