Our enemies with in our own circle in Ca.

[fallriverwalker1]

you missed my point totally dale my prolmem is doing anything for fand w not just bears . no more of these bs lion studies that are going to do nothing for any of us . we have houndsmen doing these studies and as far as i'm concerend this all has to stop . we have to become proactive instead of reactive . example/ why is there still a dog control zone if there is no bear season for dogs they dont need any closed areas now do they

[Dale T]

I get what your saying and I don't have a answer for the studies, for myself I don't have a problem with the studies or the houndsmen that do them and the info they collect from them can only help us. How do you think that the studies would hurt the houndsmen?

[NORMZILLA44]

I know Dale very well, and he is very well know locally among us. He has done more for this sport, than most will dream. Buddy I think your wrong, it is your fight, look at Oregon, houndsmen did the same thing, and most say they will never see, a dog season again. And in CA we should as dog men and women have learned from prop 117. The dog men who hunted cat fro bounty, before I was born, said when they continued to run for DFG, after prop 117. They said they shot themselves in the foot. We made a pact at the capitol, as dog men and women, do not help the enemy, which is DFG, and the state. And as for Dale posting, well if nothing was done wrong, then no fear? If you sign the dotted line for a depradation permit, you list your own address, and your own name correct? So most or antone who wanted to look could see it. As a dog man I have lived by a strict code, for 26 years, and I break it for nobody, ever.

[outlaw13]

you missed my point totally dale my prolmem is doing anything for fand w not just bears . no more of these bs lion studies that are going to do nothing for any of us . we have houndsmen doing these studies and as far as i'm concerend this all has to stop . we have to become proactive instead of reactive . example/ why is there still a dog control zone if there is no bear season for dogs they dont need any closed areas now do they

I agree with you 100%. All help from houndsmen for studies or depridation or anything needs to stop. I believe it is a all or nothing kind of thing. Why in the hell should we help them out in any way with anything when Fish & Wildlife turned their back on us. They should get any support in any way.
I do believe they still have a dog controll zone as california houndsmen still have grey fox, coyote, pigs, deer, and raccoon's that they can run with hounds during the appropriate season. Someone correct me if i am wrong.

[outlaw13]

I get what your saying and I don't have a answer for the studies, for myself I don't have a problem with the studies or the houndsmen that do them and the info they collect from them can only help us. How do you think that the studies would hurt the houndsmen?

This sounds like a Dewey thing to say and i am extremely dissapointed that you of all people are drinking from the fountain.

[Dale T]

The thing with the studies is that even though our senators/assembly members didn't give shit about them they still backed hound hunting all the way, there was not one study from anywhere in the U.S. and we looked at a bunch of them that did not back us and even California's study considered houndsmen to be a part of the over all ecosystem and that came from there studies, this was the thing that pissed me off the most in the heat of SB 1222 F&G wouldn't make a stand and back up the own work.

[outlaw13]

The thing with the studies is that even though our senators/assembly members didn't give shit about them they still backed hound hunting all the way, there was not one study from anywhere in the U.S. and we looked at a bunch of them that did not back us and even California's study considered houndsmen to be a part of the over all ecosystem and that came from there studies, this was the thing that pissed me off the most in the heat of SB 1222 F&G wouldn't make a stand and back up the own work.

Ok great point, F&G or F&W or whatever they are now wouldn't make a stand and back up the scientific data that houndsmen helped them compile. So why should houndsmen continue to help them out? It didn't help the cause at all. Make them pay more and work harder to get the scientific data that isn't helping California get any of its rights back anyways.

[Dale T]

The thing is that every study done by Ca. F&G has ALWAYS backed the use of hounds and looked at hounds as part of the ecosystem and weather the dept. stood with us or not there studies did, of all the studies from about a 1/2 dozen different states and a few independents that we read though there was only one study that was against hound hunting and that was paid for by HSUS they tried to use it on SB 1221 but we were able to discredit it because of who paid for it and that it was the only study that was for them.

[fallriverwalker1]

dale why wont you acknowledge the fact that f and w are not our friends , have you read the new rules . fish and game or wild ltfe now says there is no need for quota.

dale what changed ; owtlaw what i was saying was that when there was a bear season we had the dog control zones to keep the guys out of the woods as to dont run bears in the off season ; with no bear season there is no need for it . it just stops the hog hunters out of the woods until deer season

[outlaw13]

dale why wont you acknowledge the fact that f and w are not our friends , have you read the new rules . fish and game or wild ltfe now says there is no need for quota.

dale what changed ; owtlaw what i was saying was that when there was a bear season we had the dog control zones to keep the guys out of the woods as to dont run bears in the off season ; with no bear season there is no need for it . it just stops the hog hunters out of the woods until deer season

Exactly it is just another restriction to keep people out of the woods.

[Dale T]

dale why wont you acknowledge the fact that f and w are not our friends , have you read the new rules . fish and game or wild ltfe now says there is no need for quota.dale what changed ;

I've never claimed they were or are our friends I have said over and over again that they are not! They would not stand up for us or there own work, there were a few that stood up and caught shit for it from the dept. The studies are a double edged sword they support us in content but require houndsmen to do the catching for F&W, some times you have to take the bad to get the good.

[fallriverwalker1]

dale they have studied them to death weve gained nothing and never will i spent a lot of tim e back when all of this loin crap started meetings with f and w meetings in the capitol we got shafted back just like you did on the bear bill main prolbem is your still listing to the same people ,, as i said eefore when you guys start being proactive instead of reactive let me know,, by the way did you know the department has killed more lions under dep permits then if we.d had a season did you know that under the lion prop no lions were ever supposed to be killed

[steverosecrans]

I am not in the habit of responding to the posts on here but I can't resist this one.

I no longer live in CA and I am just an old crippled up guy that can barely hunt any more, but here is my two cents worth.

If you guys in CA want to get your rights back, then EVERY ONE OF YOU need to get off your ass and raise bloody hell about what has been done (you are not going to change it ?? ) and every chicken ___ thing that happens, including outing turncoats that are in bed wirh the enemy, or take up flower aranging. If you guys had gotten off your asses you could probably stopped the anti's in the first place. GROW A PAIR.

[outlaw13]

dale they have studied them to death weve gained nothing and never will i spent a lot of tim e back when all of this loin crap started meetings with f and w meetings in the capitol we got shafted back just like you did on the bear bill main prolbem is your still listing to the same people ,, as i said eefore when you guys start being proactive instead of reactive let me know,, by the way did you know the department has killed more lions under dep permits then if we.d had a season did you know that under the lion prop no lions were ever supposed to be killed

I know that is also true. More lions are killed every year through depridation hunts than were ever killed when there was a lion season. I hate to say not to help your neighbor out when his dogs and cats are getting killed but we are shooting ourselfs in the foot every time we take our hounds and help to take a problem animal.

[outlaw13]

In the year 2000 they issued 245 depridation permits and killed 148 lions. In 2004 they issued another 245 permits and killed 116 lions. In 1971 and 1972 when Mt. lion season opened only 50 tags were permitted. In1972 only 4 depridation permits were issued and only 1 lion was killed with a permit. Something sure looks fishy here right. Seems the greenies saved the mt. lion and they are a protected species since they are so majestic now no lions are killed. WRONG!!!! HUNTING WAS SIMPLY TAKEN AWAY FROM THE AVERAGE CITIZEN AND GIVEN TO THE SELECT FEW. THE SAME THING WILL HAPPEN WITH BEAR HUNTING AND WE WILL NEVER GET A SEASON BACK WHEN PEOPLE ARE SO WILLING TO STAB EVERYONE IN THE BACK JUST TO CHASE ONE PROBLEM BEAR.