BigGameHoundsmen.com

pegleg wrote:Our hounds are what they are because we call them by color coded breed names

Yes, that is just the easiest to do. I remember when some one on here years ago was all excited about his new Kemmer cur that he bought from a well known hunter. He posted a photo of it. Every one who had seen a number of Kemmers knew it was a mixed bred dog because of it's color. But if it had been a mixed bred dog that came down in Kemmer colors, no one would have known.

Would be nice if we could sort dogs and put them in catagories by how they hunt regardless of color. Then all dogs that win could be called Walkers and all dogs that lose could be called Blueticks.

Just Kidding Robin. Would love to sit down and talk with you some day.

A very Good dialog about Hounds. David always brings insight into the backgrounds of the many types of Hounds he has reviewed in his quest for a "Bobcat Hound".

Mr. Robin you wrote "David, I think i know what you're saying but blueticks and walkers were both bred from the English coonhound.Walkes have running dog,bird dog and blueticks bred into them,generations back."

What "English Coonhound" are you referring to?

Are the "Walkers" you make reference to here, Treeing Walkers (Founded in the early 1940s) or the Historic Walker Fox Hound Strain founded in the mid 1850s; from whom the Treeing Walkers evolved.

I have problems finding historic references to any "English Bluetick Coon Hound" before the 1950s, and these were American Coon Hounds not Imported Hounds.

The best I can find is the French Gascon(sp) BloodHound type Bluetick colored Hound; and there were several similar Breeds, were Imported all the way back into the early 1700s. These Hounds were crossed into the English, Irish, and French "Fox Hound" types to develop the early "Varmint" Hounds (Coon, Bear, Squirrel, Hog, and other Varmints).

A Strain of Fox hounds was bred & developed in the early 1900s, by several of the Super Rich Fox Hunters in the SE corner of Pennsylvania, North Maryland and North Delaware that used a lot of the Blue French Blood Hound type Hound, crossed with American Fox Hounds and other Hound types of the region to produce the Penn-Marydel. A Hound who will have longer ears than a typical "Fox Hound" type Hound; Come in one of several colors including Bluetick, B&T, and Tri-colored. These Hounds are known for their nose, mouth and methodical style of moving a track. They were developed for the Sport of following Hounds Horseback while in pursuit of game not to ultimately pursue the game to catch or kill it. thus the term "Sport Hound" came into our Lexicon!

Here is a clip of Penn-Marydels of all three colors working a Track!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZQ_qis71j3M

I forget the sound in the trees in the fall. We have our sounds here like in some canyons or when it floats . but I don't here the echoes like autumn woods much here.

Pegleg,I've never competition hunted so i'll tread lightly but i believe you're right.It seems like the hunts have done more to hurt the breeds rather than improve them. I've ordered many pups from different breeders over the years and most were not what a cat hunter would want.There are those rare few though.I like those that are west coast bred.

Dads dogboy,I meant the English treehound.I refer to the research that Guy O.has done on the subject.Also old time breeders like Elbert Vaughn.

http://cimarronriverkennels.webs.com/DJimtreed.JPG check out that picture- ol jim was one of whitest bluticks ive seen,,,, was a lot of talk that he could have had some walker in him,,,, lol i had a pup off him,, was my first GOOD coondog, almost 40 years ago, damm i must be old, hunted quite a few grandpups,,, they were tough and fast,, over the years best bluticks ive seen had a lot of his blood in them,,, i ran them on bear - i have never hunted with a GOOD bobcat dog, any breed,,, cat got away most the time,

Pete ,some of ole Jim's pups,grandpups"etc"made it out here to Oregon.The better one's make TOP cat dogs!Wish you could see the one i have now.Buzz Anderson of Oklahoma said"If ole Jim had walker in him,he got it by blood transfusion".LOL! If you ever get out this way we'll go hunting. Robin

i found a older book on hunting hounds in the usa and it had some very good illustrations and tin types and some photos. it was taken from a mans hunting journal and his experiences over many years of hunting various areas of our country. the thing that struck me was the amount of collie looking dogs used during the early 1800's. the vast majority of dogs pictured had either color or physical resemblances to collie dogs. i remember reading books of later publishing that made mention of ring necked hounds? so maybe those walkers are just lop eared smooth coated collies with some bluetick thrown in for voice and style! lol. but back to the point if a walker has some collie or stag or trigg etc. is it still a "walker" this is my contention with the walker it is a smelting pot of ever hound or dog that will "by gawd add that extra" whatever theyre looking for. the problem is i didn't ask for all that extra treeing or fast running hot nosed behavior. theres still good strains of walker for my purposes but they re very hard to find and then breed true.
This is a personal reflection the walkers i've hunted tended to be weak in one very important area to my success. they can't handle not being able to run a track to conclusion easily fairly often in my country. now im not the most successful hunter.and i've had more then i could handle with pups not being able to walk over a hot trash track on day number eight or ten or whatever to cold trail to a dead end. then at that point you start seeing the fire die in alot of those walker pups. you take a old dumb desert bred dog and he's happy just to go on a hike every day and smell a dried out cat turd once a month. i had one snap mentally once very smart cat dog and started super early and put hustle into everything she did. however it had been a dry spell in the cat department "my fault surely" but she ran across a skunk who wasn't buried well enough and completely dismantled it before i was aware of it. didn't really hurt her as a cat dog but she single handily declared and enacted war on the species from that point on no matter how hard i was or what i tried it just didnt work to break her. she probably would have set the world on fire as a cat hound had she had a different owner and hunted a area with decent cat numbers. i hunted her in other areas and she could really shine given a chance. but if it happened a skunk was out there it was dead. i've never had a colder running hound run through the difficulty of low cat density like those high dollar walker pups. i did have a cowdog/hound that would start trailing the horse with out fail on the third day with out a cat track. that dog kept track of my success rate way better then i ever did. for eleven years that dog would rub my failure in. but hell of a locate dog in brush or rocks you just had to keep his faith up. maybe studying the bulldog quarter horse popularity or the "angus" beef campaign would give insight into all the "breeds" gaining walker characteristics. if you believe thats pure black angus your paying for i'm sure the dairy farmers appreciate your money. but it can be any mostly black hided beef. and theres alot of combos that produce those black hides or spotted dogs.

Is there even such a thing as a pure bred at this point in the game. i mean who cares what color a dog is. Id breed a hound to a monkey if i thought the litter would produce some rock star stuff. and really the color of a dog is really no different than the color of a persons hair. but i guess thats my personal opinion.

There's only one dog, and that is a hound.

Any time you start breeding with color as the highest priority you lose the part of the dog we all want. My best dogs have always been a mix of some kind,

I believe it imperative that the guys with the know how keep breeding their strain to a specific standard for posterities sake and wish more people would spay/neuter their delinquent family pet

most guys out here are not breed specific, but then most won't even slow down for a bobkitty track let alone try to catch one, could be the season is to short for bobcat specific dogs.