BigGameHoundsmen.com

They are still whacking those females, only 4 more and no more lion hunting till 2015, and here it is mid February.
I heard one Outfitter blame the female kill on the weather. Stating well you know this dry weather kept us all from catching our client's lions so when we get a little snow we better take what we can get or we will be upside down in this hound business.


Like I said earlier I am not pointing fingers and this really doesn't impact me all that much but it sure does for a lot of local sport hunters who just like to take the kids and the dogs out and have some fun.

so think about it..........

Mike,

He said or he'd be up side down in the dog business???? LMAO I guess ya can tell when that fella is lying, when his lips are moving.



Take care, Willie

Just a reminder that NM hunting seasons run April 1- March 31. The quotas will reset April 1 for the new hunting/license year. So if any zone does close before March 31 it will reopen April 1.

Kelly,

This is true however it still doesn't take the pressure off the female lions. As you will note looking at the harvest data the bulk of the female lions are killed by lion chasers in areas when snow is on the ground. In bare ground areas a few females are killed by novice hunters but the bulk of the females killed in other areas are causing livestock damage.Generally the people that hunt lions with dogs and not just use dogs to chase down lions of whose tracks they have already found are generally more discriminating about killing lions because each lion track their dogs sttrike is an opportunity to make their dogs better overall and you can't train lion dogs without lions to trail.

I witnessed the actual circumstances that happen when too many resident females are taken out of a given area this last week.

I have a certain section of ground that I have hunted for many years. It is remote and legally the only way you can access this area is either on foot or horseback. I have caught some really big toms in this area over the years and due to it's proximity to wilderness areas it seemed to always have a tom or two making circles in there paying house calls on the resident females. You may not hit a good track every time you go but you would see signs of their passing I.E.(tracks, scrapes and such.) I know the scrape runs in these areas so I know where to look for those signs. This area has been very dry and stable so tracks and sign would remain visable for many weeks with the wind being the only thing that might detract from them but not all that much. I literally rode a good 6 year old gelding till he was wore out checking these areas and not a sign of any lion female or tom did I see. Was the game there? Yes deer jumping all around me most of the day. Had there been too much human activity in there? No due to seasonal closures very little human activity out of the ordinary. so why no lion sign? Why no scrapes or tracks or old kills?

I was discussing this with a young lion hunting friend of mine who is very wise inspite of his youth. He knows the area too and he said I can tell you why you didn't find any tom sign in there. No females! They have been mucked out of that area big time over the past couple of years. Why would a big tom come in there if he paid several calls and no female sign was detected? He can roam wherever he wants because game is all over the place and much better habitat is to be found to the north and east of the area so why bother showing up for nothing?

His point was well taken this was not a hub area ever but it brought toms in on a regular basis because enough females would press out and take up residence in the area. So how long will it take for this area to recover and be a good spot to look for a trophy tom again? Well that depends on how hard the females are getting pounded in the areas next to it. If they remain in good numbers and produce then in a year or two some sub -females will press out and make a new home and when they do the toms will come by occasionaly and check on them. But if the femal numbers go down in the core areas of habitat just scratch this old place off the list.

So why not just go to the core areas and look for the toms? Well that is all well and good except these areas are made up of mostly indian reservations that closely monitor the hunting pressure and do not easily allow a lot of outside hunting pressure thus making them the lion's choice of ranges. We better be glad of that for if it were not so in a few years of this rapant type female killling there would not be much of a reason to keep a hound around these parts.

Just speaking for my area. It's not the newcomers that refuse to back off the killing of females. It's a select few greedy outfitters with no regard for other hunters or future of Lion hunting. They are very mistaken if they think they can butt heads and win against the increasing liberals, especially in this state, this is aside the fact that by killing a female you eliminate every kitten she would have ever had.
If they need the money that bad they're in the wrong business and maybe should consider getting a real job. Just my .02
Kenny

Mike,
I was just trying to ease your mind a little that you wouldn't have to wait until 2015 to hunt in zone A. I would think you're pretty much preaching to the choir on this forum about not killing females.
Kelly

Kelly,

I hope you are right about preaching to the choir. The choir needs to take up the chorus and let the ones doing the female killing learn the song. I no some can never be reached because they do not have the rudements of hunter craft and ethics within them, but others just need some education.

Thanks all for listening and good hunting to you!

This is how I see it, if you kill the factory (females) you kill all the product (kittens). But if the the factory is not manage to some point you will have to much product. Its just like deer and elk and every other species. There has to be balance some where in the world.

kansas0311,

you are correct but unlike deer and elk lions have a unique way of taking care of the over production of product. by harvesting trophy toms you allow an entrance for outside male lions to enter the territroy that was previously guarded by the paternal tom of that area. In his effort to establish and rule supreme over that vacated area he will make every effort to hunt down and kill every kitten that is still in that vulnerable state which in turn will cause these females to come back into season and thereby he can plant his seed. It is a cruel sounding affair but one that is practiced by nearly all dominant predators in the world. In studing the history of human civilizations you might be surprized to find that humans have also engaged in similar activities over the course of their development.