Running dogs that tree

[mike martell]

I will say this though don't expect to have a bobcat around every corner or trot across the road in front of you and lace up your boots because the 15 minute COLD trails don't happen here very seldom and there isn't a good road system and bring some woolies not to many jean days here. Andy

Dang it Don and J.C., having two bobcats jump the road sure makes our Oregon bobcat hunting look easy from the computer screen! I have been hunting the East high desert and over the last six weeks, encountered one other hound hunter rigging bare ground bobcats with jeans and short sleeve weather since we haven't had a flake of snow in six weeks over East in the juniper desert country. When you look at average rainfall on locations around Central Oregon to that of Columbus Montana it is very similar.

Have my catch ratios gone down over 50% or more? you bet! When the wind blows on the sand it doesn't hold scent like when a crisp snow has fallen on the same ground like in most cases this time of year. When you struggle on the sand and complete even one race and then hit the snow....Look out! Most guys aren't willing to try because it is too demanding....Most guys figure it can't be done and have the hounds parked while the same 10% carry on...

This however sure has been good for the bobcat population that has been hit hard by snow track hunters over the last several years. When you read these threads called "bobcat movement" you will better understand, its not the bobcats or their movements its the lacking of prime conditions called snow and makes it appear their is a lack of movement that equals too the finding of bobcats that drives this point home about bobcat hunting in general, with most of what I'm referencing being right here in the Northwest.

JMHO
Mike

[dwalton]

Narrow minded yes I am when it comes to what I want in a bobcat dog. AS stated by some and myself there are no perfect dogs all that I am looking for are strains that breed consistently to a type that works for me. As to different areas needing a different type of dog I agree, as to different hunters preferring a different type of dog and being able to get the best from a type of dog, I agree. As far as hunting in different areas and climates, I have hunted most of them. I have hunt bobcats with the dogs that I have now from 15 below to 85 , from September to July and treed cats in the deserts, on the Oregon coast to the Nevada desert. AS far as cold trailing one only needs to talk to someone that has hunted with me or hunt with me to see what a cold trailing dog can do. For me I want a dog that can hold up to hunting day after day 10 to 12 hours a day, a dog that can take a cold bobcat track and cover ground with it, trailing hours before the jump. I trailed one the other day for over 6 hours covering almost 7 map miles through some of the roughest bluffs and rocks Oregon has to offer. I want a dog that can go out in the dry summer, being weeks since it rained strike from the rig and trail a bobcat not catching all in those conditions but when rains come they make it look easy. I don't expect a dog to be perfect just to start, trail and tree most of the cats they hit in some of the roughest country this country has to offer. I expect a lot from a dog and work with what I get in a dog, but there is a difference in dogs just because I may expect more does not make them good or bad. They are just what they are. What I have trouble with most dogs on bobcats is their track stile. I want a dog to take a cold bobcat track and run it, not opening at the same spot twice,not barking off track, not barking going to dogs. When a loose is made all dogs shut up until one finds the clean track. All dogs running for the lead and treeing enough to find them. There maybe strains of dogs that do this in the treeing walkers or any other breed, I have not hunted with them all, but can they produces litters of pup that most pups have the traits that it takes for what I believe a bobcat dog should be? I know there are no perfect dogs but I do expect a lot from any dog. Each to their own and hunt what works for you. Dewey

[al baldwin]

A good post Dewey,written with respect, I am going to make a comment written with respect, also. I hunt with a friend who has dogs that can trail a cat for miles, those dogs do not run a cold track like they are jumped, but they get the job done. How can dogs run a cold track like they are jumped, when it takes six hours to cover seven miles? No disrespect, just something I wanted to ask. Also feel compelled to point out that two blueticks, one two year old red bone, one two year old tree walker, made a good showing in the cat hunt. How can one say tree bred dogs can not get the job done on bobcat? Also need to give credit to the dogs hunted by Padgetts & bred by JC & John Warner. There is running blood in that cross, however, Mel White told me the Damn of that litter was from two registered treeing walkers. I have been told that Damn was a good cat dog, track & tree & know some of that litter treed young on cat. Just saying might be a source to put more tree in your dogs. As you say hunt what suits you. Al

[twist]

Mike and Dewey no disrespect to eiher of you I have been to the westcoast several times hunting have been to oregon hunting with some dang nice running cross dogs. The country is just like every where else it takes a good dog to catch cats anywhere but full hounds can get it done there and running dogs can get it done here but you have never heard me say there isn't a running dog cross that I have seen work in montana. Yes like you both say hunt what works for you but if anyone suggests anything different it just wont work. I have always wondered why is the westcoast so hard of hunting conditions one need a special type hound to catch cats? Good discussion guys. Andy

[newby]

Dewey, I want that kind of dog too...haven't seen one yet, but I want one. I will say this, I saw a pup out of your dogs (11 months I think, might be 15), on a cat track with 4 treehounds this winter and he was pushing the track good, he was the last one we could call off the track as they were heading right into fresh wolf tracks. He didn't do much cold trailing (it was a heavy headed Cameron bitch that grubbed the track to the point it got jumped) but once it was jumped he worked real good. Wish we could have seen the cat go up so I could give an opinion on running cross dogs treeing. it's just a matter of time til I try one of those crossed dogs myself...I'll be in the market probably next fall as my older male just isn't holding up on theses long races like he used to. If any of you have any leads, I would appreciate it.

[southern fox]

been breeding running hounds for a very long time , everything I own is kin and a lot come into this world naturally deer proof, I have used these type of hounds for many years , they can smell a cold track that will make a man think it will never be ran , some of there noses are colder than others, they wont tree , might would if had something there that would tree, but personally I don't want them to cause im not gouing in there to the tree, if he trees or goes in something I know it cause they will hunt the truck , if he gets away they wont come till you make them come, that's how I know what just took place, everything I own is a chase registered hound, I wont own a hound that's not a registered hound, I wont buy a pup from anyone , wont even breed to a hound unless he has a lot of the same stuff that's in whats in mine , I feel like a man has to have what he likes , a proven stock of hounds, weather it be tree blood or running blood to do what he likes, my opinion is if one likes it feed it and hunt it ! if you catching game something must be right or it wouldn't be happening , December and jan of this year I have caught quite a few cat , I wont say on here how many but quite a few, more than I care to say ! with running hounds on the dirt, and maybe 3 grey fox , wont let them get them , I can say if a man searches long enuf for a registered hound I promise he will find what he wants cause they are out there .

[merlo_105]

Good point Souther Fox, If your catching then there working. I would run just about most Reg. Running dogs that are hunted on the outside. When it come's to the Reg. Tree hound there are few I would even try, I would try some from Twist, and I like what Cobalt has and I would also try one from Catdog360, Mic O'Brien, getting to watch two pup's that came out of him and there doing just fine just starting to be hauled in the woods and the owners like what there seeing. I'm not partial yet to any breed strain or cross or what has it. Get them from guy's who truly are getting after the game and see what you like.

[twist]

Bone2, here are a few off top of my head give me a call anytime in the evenings and I will grab my note book and give you thier numbers if you wish. M. Weston, J. Drummond, Z. Couch, L. Foyboin, M. Obrian. All live on west coast only one of these guys is on the forum M.Obrian goes buy catdog360 give him a shout on here pretty sure he can answer a few of your questions. Andy

[BlazeNBrat]

Bone2, keep looking they are out there, for sure. There are do it all cold nosed tree bred dogs that can flat wheel down a track.

[catdog360]

Bone2, the Turners had two dogs for sale about a week ago. I would start there. And of course Mike Kemp, you can always buy a pup from him if you don't want a startedvdog.

Merlo, keep me updated on those pups. We are gonna make the cross one final time. Al gets some credit, they are Sounders pups. Mostly Finley River that's been brought here by Ray Meats.

Al, imagine how much ground a cat will weave in and out of for 7 miles as a crow flies.

To all if you get an invite to hunt with someone, I recommend you doing it. Take an open mind and just watch. You may see some hounds move a cold track like its hot. You even walk away just shaking your head.

I have registered walkers and running dogs. There's a place for both. I will always have both. Cross them and then watch what happens.

Mic O'Brien

[mark]

The last 2 paragraphs of catdogs post sure sums up what i think. I just could never of said it that clear and short.

[Big N' Blue]

The last 2 paragraphs of catdogs post sure sums up what i think. I just could never of said it that clear and short.

Your just long winded and never take the foxes advice! Jmho

[BrandonCombe]

Southern fox how do you know 100% what you are running if you do not tree it and how do you know the numbers of caught game if not caught? I mean no disrespect just trying to get a better understanding of your way of Hunting witch seems to be alot diffrent from the way I hunt other than the game persued.

[merlo_105]

I was kinda wondering the same thing.

[dwalton]

Al go back and reread my post. All my post. I think you will see that I have never said that they run a cold track like a jump. What I have said is that they run a cold track. If dogs can do that they have no trouble on the jump.It is just a roar with the jump lasting from 2 to 20 minutes. It always amazes me as to what people know about my dogs but have never hunted with them. Just maybe all they know is just based on what they have seen out of dogs that they have seen catch a few bobcats. Most dogs can catch a bobcat of any breed, each to their own. Thats not what I am interested in I want a dog that completes all of its jumps and most of its strikes. Being able to cold trail a track fast enough to allow time to catch 2 to 5 cats a day. Hunting with hounds be it bobcat hunting, lion,bear, coyote, fox or coon hunting is like all sports there are many different levels. Dogs that excel at one game may not at all game. Like all sports there are a lot of experts and some are actually very well accomplished at what they do, some are not they just think they are and every where in between. Each to their own. Dewey