BigGameHoundsmen.com

MT GOAT, THANKS AGAIN FOR YET ANOTHER USEFUL LINK. THIS HELPS ,I SEE YOU ARE BETWEEN L.A. AND BAKERSFIELD. EVER BEEN HUNTING ON THE TEJON RANCH, IT IS A NICE RANCH. BUT CHANGING FAST. RUN JUST THE BIRD DOGS OR DO YOU HAVE HOUNDS?

Mike

You know I live about an hour and ahalf from Tejon but have never hunted it. I've almost done a Pig hunt a few time, but it never happened.

As for do I have Hounds ? Yes. I have an a a couple Walkers, a Redbone, and acouple Jeff Allen pups I just picked up. I'm new to the hound game, but having fun trying to make some young dogs into Bear and Bobcat dogs. If this year goes as planned I think I'll be heading in the right direction, time will tell.

mt goat, if you ever get the chance do the pig a rama hunt on the tejon. it is a very big ranch. there lots of hogs and bobcats. you see them jump the road on a regular basis. some of my white cloud dogs are used there by one of the guides. we are trying to bring back the old strain of hounds. i work with a few outfitters who are serious on big game.that is why the post on the blue eyes , in my research i find that a dog called indiana boone boy was the culprit for this . with the intensive line breeding program he comes up like 2000 times in these pups. so no wonder you get the odd throw back. those jeff allen pups should do well in that country. with nose to burn. as you know how dry and arrid it is.

BLUE EYED BLUETICK HOUNDS

This is my UKC Registered Walker she is Nance/Clover bred. I believe the blue eye came from the clover line. It must be a real recessive Gene because she has had two litters of 10 pups each with no blue eyed pups.

It may come "from" somewhere. Or it just might have always been in there and comes out more often the tighter the hounds are bred. I have had several with off color eyes from golden yellow to blue have a couple now. It does seem to go away quick if bred to a unrelated hound. But if two hounds with one colored eye are mated it amplifies the number of pups with one or both eyes colored. It also doesnt appear to be related to the hounds color unless eye patch color maybe. I have non ticked and heavy ticked hounds with colored eyes. Most importantly they dont seem any more prone to eye issues as ive never had one develop any

The blue eyes come from breeding cow dogs into hounds or hounds into cow dogs. Yellow eyes come from bird dogs, like labs. True hounds have two brown eyes and true hound colors. As far as eye issues or hearing issues, you would have to measure with the proper testing, on a wide range and there are, negative genetic problems.
Agreed, to a point, tighter breeding does bring out many flaws. Most if not all breeders stop at this point or make an outcross and lose any gains. I am speaking of breeding not hunting, because you may get a few good hounds, from an outcross. It's just that it's impossible to duplicate and slightly improve what you get from this type of breeding.

Unread postby JTG » Sat Oct 20, 2018 7:33 am

"The blue eyes come from breeding cow dogs into hounds or hounds into cow dogs. Yellow eyes come from bird dogs, like labs. True hounds have two brown eyes and true hound colors. As far as eye issues or hearing issues, you would have to measure with the proper testing, on a wide range and there are, negative genetic problems.
Agreed, to a point, tighter breeding does bring out many flaws. Most if not all breeders stop at this point or make an outcross and lose any gains. I am speaking of breeding not hunting, because you may get a few good hounds, from an outcross. It's just that it's impossible to duplicate and slightly improve what you get from this type of breeding."

If you could please tell me how you came to this opinion. Either written or real life experience. thank you in advance.

Jack

Hello, Jack.

Sure, all true hounds have brown eyes and true hound colors. It’s impossible to get, off colored eyes without the merle gene and true hounds do not have the merle gene. So, if you have, let’s say blue color cow dog, mixed with a bluetick hounds and then continue, for several generations breeding the bluetick in and the cow dog out, before long, it would go unnoticed and look like a bluetick. That is, until either by years of inbreeding or just by chance something from another breed like the blue eyes, just shows up. The merle gene is inherited as an autosomal, incomplete dominant trait. The merle gene causes patches of color or a solid coat or blue or odd colored eyes. Cryptic merle hounds do not appear to be merle, but contain the merle gene. Solid color dogs are cryptic, like Leopard cur, now called Leopard hounds. You can breed two solid color Leopard hounds and get a mixed litter with both solid and merle littermates. The merle gene alters color and modifies eye, nose and pads on feet color. The merle gene modifies causing random modifications to the pigment of the eyes, occasionally changes dark eyes to blue, one eye or only part of the eye. Hounds that do not present the merle genotype can produce merle offspring and are also known as cryptic merles, they do not appear to be merle, just produce those traits.

[quote="JTG"]Hello, Jack.

" all true hounds have brown eyes "

Could you give an example of what you consider a true hound. ( Not to discuss the merits of that strain, but to have a genetic starting point.

Jack

Jack, you can look up True hounds and True hound colors, it was a common phrase, used by the early fox hunters from around 1840. There is related information in the 1928 book, Hounds and Hunting, though the ages.
Sometime between 1945 through 1960, cow dogs and bird dogs where bred in. I have letters from houndsman of that generation, confirming what I had already known.

Shit! I guess that means my dog isn’t a true hound?;) they were all mutt hunting dogs before they were registered hounds. Who knows what all was bred in to those foundation dogs, and how many times a breeder has slipped a little extra blood in along the way to the hounds we have today. I’m trying to find a article that I read a year or two ago about how geneticist had proven that blue eyes from huskies, and blue eyes from cattle dogs are different genes or series of genes. I’ll post it if I can find it.

Cameron Adams

mike martell wrote:JUST SPOKE WITH A GOOD FRIEND IN OHIO. HE JUST HAD A LITTER OF PUPS FROM A OLD LINE BRED STRAIN OF WALKERS. HE HAS TWO PUPS THAT HAVE BLUE EYES. IN 36 YEARS OF HOUND HUNTING NEVER HAVE I SEEN A HOUND THAT HAD BLUE EYES. ANY BREED FOR THAT MATTER. JUST LOOKING FOR SOME FEED BACK HERE. AS I'M STUMPED. SPOKE ABOUT THIS TO ANOTHER FRIEND, HE JUST SAW A HEAVY LINE BRED CAMERON CROSS JUST MADE . THE GUY HAS BRED THEM HIMSELF FOR 20 YEARS. LINE BREEDING AND ALL OF A SUDDEN HE GETS A PUP WITH BLUE EYES? BEFORE I JUMP TO CONCLUSIONS, WOULD APPRECIATE SOME FEED BACK, I'M JUST A SKEPTIC, THINKING THEY ARE NOT FULL HOUND. THANKS

I should have addressed you in my first response but saw what I thought may have been an opportunity for many to find the answer for them selves as it pertains to their personal "HOUND".
The short answer to your question is there are very few AMERICAN hounds that will not trace back to colored eyes.
The hounds that I know little about that many have only brown eyes only are the plott and possibly the Grand Bleu de gascon.
All others will have a heavy FOX HOUND influence, weather it be by most notability by the WALKER/Maupin strain or one of the others such as the GOODMAN....TRIGG....SUGARLOAF...BIRDSONG or JULY. There are others but you get my point> I also have the breeding notes of each that were in old publications and books, stating color, color of eyes, color of toenails, coat heaviness of tail, quality of voice.
So I will make the bold statement that no (not many) true hounds come from an ancestry that did not honestly produce colored eyes.

Jack

Okay, how do you know?





I should have addressed you in my first response but saw what I thought may have been an opportunity for many to find the answer for them selves as it pertains to their personal "HOUND".
The short answer to your question is there are very few AMERICAN hounds that will not trace back to colored eyes.
The hounds that I know little about that many have only brown eyes only are the plott and possibly the Grand Bleu de gascon.
All others will have a heavy FOX HOUND influence, weather it be by most notability by the WALKER/Maupin strain or one of the others such as the GOODMAN....TRIGG....SUGARLOAF...BIRDSONG or JULY. There are others but you get my point> I also have the breeding notes of each that were in old publications and books, stating color, color of eyes, color of toenails, coat heaviness of tail, quality of voice.
So I will make the bold statement that no (not many) true hounds come from an ancestry that did not honestly produce colored eyes.

Jack[/quote]

[quote="JTG"]Okay, how do you know?

I don't know what you are asking about.

Jack